Secondary Fermentation and Bottling

[Jimmy Ale]

First AG brew yesterday (see the other thread I started) and I wanted to ask for people's opinion on secondary fermentation and bottling. I've seen a few different opinions and not sure which is generally considered the best.

I've got "The Big Book of Brewing" by Dave Line, and in it he recommends fermenting the ale in the primary fermentation vessel for about 5 days before racking off into demijohns for a couple of weeks of secondary fermentation. He then says to add finings and leave for 48 hours, rack off again and then add a lager yeast solution (because he says bottom fermenting yeasts are superior to top fermenting yeasts for conditioning). After this he says to bottle as normal with priming sugar.

Anyway, what I've always done before with my kits is to bottle straight from my primary vessel without adding finings. This has meant my finished beer has been a bit cloudy, but taste-wise it's still been acceptable.

I was just wondering what people here think of Dave Line's approach and whether this gives any noticeable improvements? It seems like a lot of work if there's not much benefit (not to mention the added risk of introducing an infection somewhere along the line by constantly transferring your beer between vessels)... it'll also mean another trip to the homebrew shop to buy some lager yeast!

On a related note: if you fine your beer and then bottle it with priming sugar 48 hours later, is there enough yeast remaining in the beer to ferment the priming sugar in the bottle and condition the beer? Or do you need to add extra yeast at this stage like Dave Line recommends?

Thanks for all the help and sorry for pestering you all with all these questions. :

 

[craigite]

i find the following works for me, and that's what should matter.

1. after 24-48hrs of fermentation a transfer into clean fermentation vessel (another plastic bucket) Gets rid of the yuck.

2. after another 5-8 days or until the gravity has dropped to the expected final or the fermentation has stopped, I transfer to next clean bucket add gelatene (or however it's spelt) and move it to a cool place. Yeast is hard to get here so I do this so I can carefully scoop 3-4 table spoons of the yeast into new clean sandwich plastic bag. 3 bags usually. I find it stores in the fridge well.

3. after 7-14 days when dropped clear I bottle into primed bottles. I mix either sugar or spraymalt with boiled water then add measured amount into each bottle. With the better halfs help it's beer into bottles.

4. 4-7 days somewhere over 18degC

5. further 7-14 days cool.

6. drink :drink:

I usually get barely a light dusting of yeast in the bottom of the bottle but the brew conditions perfectly.

Seems a lot simpler when I do it, typing it out make it look a lot of work. :hmm:

PS. I don't do the yeast thing more for more than two to three generations before I harvest off a good bottle and start again.

 

[prolix]

Jimmy, I come from the lazy school of brewing an have had no complaints about the beer.

I ferment 10 days to get rid of any fermentation extras, fine with gelatine a day or two before kegging and force carbonate in cornies. I also bottle a couple at the same time and find they take a while to carbonate to a fizz so a touch of sugar and a few grains of dried yeast is sometimes added if they are to be drunk with in a month. I believe the more you move your beer the bigger the risk of oxidation and contamination. DL's books are great but he also suggests gravy browning to add colour to beer not a practice I am about to even consider.

 

[Vossy1]

I ferment 10 - 14 days in primary (usually 10), rack to corny and fine, or bottle.
I find that if I try to fine in primary, the yeast never actually stops rising from top to bottom taking trails of yeast with it, spoiling the use of finings.
Personally see the use of a secondary as another risk, though if done properly, I can see no problem with it. I can see the benefit of a secondary if there is a lot of break carry over from the boiler.

 

[Jimmy Ale]

Thanks for the tips. I'm definitely leaning towards risking transferring to a secondary vessel after a few days now, especially since I made a right hash of draining the boiler and probably have all sorts of 'added extras' in my wort that it could do without. Don't think I'll bother with DL's lager yeast method though...

 

[Vossy1]

The yeast will usually throw most of the 'rubbish' which gets carried over from the boiler, on top of the krausen between 24-48 hours after pitching. You can skim the dark stuff off carefully using a sanitized spoon.
Have you seen the brown stuff I'm talking about, like this

 

[Jimmy Ale]

Yep, just been up for a look and there's definitely a layer of darker stuff starting to form on top of the foam. I pitched the yeast almost exactly 24 hours ago so I'll have a go at creaming off the scum when I get home from work tomorrow.

 

[jambanks]

Just out of interest vossy, I live in a flat that has a constant temp of around 20-22c, have just bottled first AG and was planning on leaving it in same place as where it fermented. Will not giving it a cool period make any difference?

 

[PaleAle]

I'm no expert Jimmy and asked the same questions on my first brew last November.
I did the following and have really clear beer with a nice carbonation on opening that is getting better as the weeks go by:

left in Primary for 8 days at 20c until stopped fermenting

Added beer brite from local HBS left for 24hours

transfered to plastic vessel fitted with bottle filler

added brew sugar (1 teaspoon per litre of beer) to boiled water and added in bulk to bottling vessel

Filled bottles, capped and left for 5 days at 20c then moved to garage and stored for 4 weeks

This was the end result and the picture doesn't do it justice as the glass was a bit steamed up


Hope that helps :

 

[wmfd]

I was just wondering what people here think of Dave Line's approach and whether this gives any noticeable improvements? It seems like a lot of work if there's not much benefit (not to mention the added risk of introducing an infection somewhere along the line by constantly transferring your beer between vessels)... it'll also mean another trip to the homebrew shop to buy some lager yeast!

I haven't fined, but have found that, for me, that moving to a secondary vessel (once fermentation has finished) for a week before bottling has helped me reduce the amount of yeast in the bottle. This could well be as a result of the large amounts of crud coming across to the FV from the boiler due to a succession of filter failures!

The flip side is that they do seem to take a while to carbonate, but still get there in the end.

David

 

[Jimmy Ale]

The yeast will usually throw most of the 'rubbish' which gets carried over from the boiler, on top of the krausen between 24-48 hours after pitching.

Opened up the bin last night (24 hours into fermentation) and skimmed off the top layer of brown stuff, taking care not to disturb the thick yeast layer underneath. More brown stuff is in evidence tonight (48 hours into fermentation), but now the yeast pancake has diminished notably - very thin and patchy in places, and quite dirty-looking (still producing plenty of CO2, though not as rapidly as yesterday). Just wondering if this a sign of poor fermentation? Or just par for the course? When I've brewed from kits I've not really paid much attention to what's happening in the fermentation vessel - but since this is my first AG brew I'm feeling a bit more paranoid... :?

PaleAle - that beer in the picture looks crystal clear to me! If I can get mine half that clear I'd be delighted. It's making me thirsty just looking at it!