Ruining my beer - plaster taste

[itry]

What did the wort from the mash smell/taste like before the boil? If fine then it isn't the water from the hose.

Leaving wort and a used mash tun over night, or a couple of nights in the case of the Fv, in a warm shed, is a pretty good way to allow lactobacillus to grow and create off flavours and aromas.

The problem here, is you are adding more uncontrolled variables, rather than eliminating them.

Also, what is the smallest batch size your kit can accommodate? 55L sounds a little extravagant given the issues.

it was not detectable in the initial brew. to prove this now i have left water in the hose and will for a few days then i will taste it. then leave on the side in a pot to see if i can smell it. Also doing test tastes. ill do these before and during the stand.

100% correct. however ive tasted soured poison gone off beer and it dosnt smell taste like this. if it was 1 that went like this ok yes , the fact i am recreating the same problem over says its a constant with in my process. ive deconstructed the actions and am now just trying to tick the boxes.

the only variables left in my mind are the hose pipe. ive used hose pipe treated water and it failed. now to prove this its going to be water from the house. failing this does any one want to buy a nano brewery ?

it does sound extravagant dosnt it! thats becasue it is! i was sure that the day old water with the campden tablet was the cure so i went in on the big boy.

 

[Sadfield]

ive used hose pipe treated water and it failed. now to prove this its going to be water from the house. failing this does any one want to buy a nano brewery ?

Not true. You treated your water with Campden to remove chloramine/chlorine. To produce off flavours these chemicals need react with yeast-derived phenols. You didn't get as far as pitching yeast, so you can't say water treatment failed. That variable may still exist, as does all others as you still encounter the off flavour.

 

[itry]

I have just got home and been out to the brewery. I've poured my self a pint of the pipe water. Yuck. It's horribal. Like my wife , I couldn't swallow it! It tasted tres orribal. Very plasticey and like water that had been sat in a garden hose for 24 hours.

Ok next step. Tomorrow do a brew and use tap water from in the house. I will prepare this this evening and campden treat it.

I hope were getting some where.....

 

[foxbat]

It's the hose. Probably best not to Google what leaches into the water from a PVC hose. . At least you've been discarding the beer rather than forcing it down.

 

[JohnB]

I read a lot on here, but don't post much, but this thread caught my attention. There is a story on t'internet about a brewery in California that had similar issues to this; basically smelly beer. They tried everything, they had a centrifuge which they thought might be the problem, they stripped pipes out, they pulled everything to bits. Finally, exasperated with the smell, they took a water sample and had it tested and sure enough their mains supply into the brewery was contaminated with bacteria living inside their mains water pipe - it took them a year to find their problem. It's possible you have a similar issue with your hose, I'd replace it with potable water (MDPE or similar) pipe (the pale blue stuff) and I'd flush it with a chlorine tab before using it. If you see a "Water Company" van near your place ask the driver, he should let you have one of the commercial tabs - they kill everything in sight. You don't say where you are but all the Anglian Water lads carry them. Pop one in the end of the pipe before you connect it, fill the pipe with water, leave it over night and then flush it out well before using it to brew. My experience? I used to lay MDPE and HDPE pipes for Anglian Water.

 

[Skippi]

For what it's worth I use a normal garden hose to fit up my kettle without issues, but I do flush it through first.
I suppose if I'd thought about it I should probably be using one of the blue 'potable' hoses e.g. 4-Layer Blue Garden Hose 1/2" | Water Hose for Potable Water| Hosepipe for Camping Site, Camper, Van, Garden | Drinking Water Equipment (15) : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

View attachment 51902

If anyone is interested in purchasing a hosepipe for potable water (as I have just done after reading this thread), the same company offer 10m at a slightly cheaper price of £13.49. - 4-Layer Blue Garden Hose 1/2" | Water Hose for Potable Water| Hosepipe for Camping Site, Camper, Van, Garden | Drinking Water Equipment (10) : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

 

[Donegal john]

Not the same thing but I drive a van and normally have a bottle of water in the cup holder in the dash. During the hot weather if I leave some water in the bottle it is disgustingly smelly by late evening. It would turn your stomach so can imagine water in a hose in the heat going the same way.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I think really the only way to ensure hoses etc don't contribute anything nasty to your beer is to only use food grade hose (preferably at least opaque so you can see if anything is lurking inside) and to only use it if you're going to pass boiling water or wort through it for ten minutes prior to use.

I do use a garden hose to clean my grainfather and fermenters, but only because I'm going to sanitise them before use. Using a CFC still makes me worry in case there's a leak inside, though I'm fairly confident it's clean as I always run boiling water through it for ten minutes the night before and then run boiling wort through it for ten minutes before cooling.

 

[itry]

I brewed a kolsch last night so were now playing the waiting game.

on a positive note no off kind of smells. ive also left a bit of the wort ( from the sg) on the side to leave it a few days and see what happens. but today no smell.


I cleaned all of my equipment with water from the house.
I took the water from inside my house the day before and treated it with a campden . for mash and sparge and left it to rest.
The external source has been totally removed from the process. no hose water.

An observation . as mentioned earlier in the post i poured a glass of "day old hose water" i tasted it and it was tres orrible. I left this on the side to see how long it takes to stink, see if it will stink. I checked it yesterday it dosnt stink yet. it has now got an interesting petrol kind of coloring kind of skin on it.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

it has now got an interesting petrol kind of coloring kind of skin on it.

It sounds like the glass hasn't been rinsed well after washing.

 

[itry]

The brew completed.


Its bad.

Took a sample to the local home brew shop. They didn't know.

So were back to cleaning.

 

[itry]

But I have opened a dialogue with murphys . I'm going to send them a sample so they can lab it

 

[Sadfield]

But I have opened a dialogue with murphys . I'm going to send them a sample so they can lab it

Will be very interesting to hear what they come back with.

Given the speed at which this off flavour presents, I'm throwing my hat on a Lactobacillus contamination. Reading the thread again, I'm wondering if all the prep of cleaning and sanitising your kit before brewing is being undone by handling grain in the same confined space. The dust from which will contain lactobacillus and wild yeast.

And then there is the possibility the shed itself being the issue. Many wild beer breweries utilise wooden structures in their breweries to harbour all manner of microflora, or attribute their success to the building itself.

 

[itry]

I dont think it could be the shed. But their is always more cleaning that can be done. Just so you know I use the word "shed" in reality what I mean is a wooden framed and wooden clad structure. Internally is dry lined and clad with white rock. The floor is resin. The worktop is marble. Every thing is wipe clean and brilliant white. The celing is gloss white paint with led spot lights. Looks more like an operating theatre than a shed. The preparation of grain in the work area , now that's an idea.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

It might be worth a small sample mash in the kitchen using none of the equipment you normally use for mashing. A handful of malt in a saucepan using your tap water.

Just a hunch about the grain. What do you store your grain in by the way?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

@itry I can only imagine how dispiriting this must feel - but you will crack it. Hang in there!

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Daft question but has anyone else noticed this odd flavour?

You are treating your brew water with sod met to get rid of chlorine / chloramine?

Try making a cup of tea and coffee using this water source and see if it's any different in taste / appearance.

Not had covid ?

 

[itry]

Ive spoken with murphys and am sending a sample. They are convinced its bacteria in my lines and equipment. Acctually they sent me alot of really useful information and been great. They have told me about how to use microscopes to check my wort for infections. Going for another deep bleaching this weekend.

 

[Frisp]

This thread is like reading a book that has me hanging on a cliffedge and find someone has ripped out the last 3 pages so I dont know how it ends.. lol

 

[Frisp]

The second is due to an infection during fermentation. Whatever it is, a wild yeast or a bacterium propagates with the yeast while the beer is fermenting. You start off by getting a faint whiff in the FV and it gets stronger and stronger until the beer is ruined. If you suspect the later, you'll need to thoroughly clean everything that comes into contact with the fermenting beer: FVs, taps, syphon tubes. I use a solution of bleach for 24 hours, rinse and then allow a solution of metabisuphite to stand in the FV to remove every last vestige of chlorine. In fact this has become my standard cleaning routine after every FV use.

what ratio of bleach: L of water do you use? Likewise what ratio of Metabisulphite : water do you use?
also how long do you ;et it soak in Metabisulphate ?