Replacing Continental/American brewing terms to bring back UK brewing terminology

[prog99]

A good example are mountaineering terms.
At a mountain hut in Switzerland I got talking to a local who was very disappointed to discover there was no word in English for glacier.

 

[Clint]

Is Swiss for glacier,glacier?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Yes. Words like 'military' which is still pronounced with every syllable in US English but is shortened to MIL-A-TREE in our English. How do we know how it was pronounced 200 years ago? From court records! The clerks or scribes were often poorly educated and spelled phonetically, so we can be fairly certain how words were pronounced.

Mainly from poetry I.e. Some words that used to rhyme then don't now.

 

[prog99]

Is Swiss for glacier,glacier?

Depends on the region

 

[micklupulo]

True enough and every craft has its own jargon. Things like "the copper" and "pitching" the yeast used to be everyday terms which have fallen out of general use and are only retained in a specialist context. My gran used to do the washday laundry in a "copper" which was a big galvanised boiler on three legs where she used to literally boil the washing until the house was full of steam- so a "copper" was any large boiler whether made of copper or not. Liquor derives from latin and has given us the word "liquid" so we have the dry addition (malts) and the liquid addition (liquor) when making a mash. I can see the yeast bubbling away in a galvanised bucket before being "pitched" into the wort. etc.
I think the OP is wondering, as I do, why we have adopted another country's jargon when we have a rich technical language of our own. Perhaps if we've adopted a process that wasn't used in British brewing, like priming a lager with newly fermenting beer before bottling or "krausening", but that doesn't mean we need to refer to all foam and fluff as "krausen". I don't remember reading these terms in the early homebrew books by the likes of Dave Line and others. They've drifted over the pond with cascade hops. We'll keep the hops, thanks, and send the rest back where they came from.

Agreed and many (sorry we now must say "multiple") words generally are eagerly adopted from American usage by media airheads who want to appear trendy. The only excuse for it creeping into brewing is that on this site and others there are members in the U.S. and that there are some good American books on the subject. However I have two books by Dave Line in which "krausen" is used so I think that's here to stay!

 

[darkbright]

My wife is Warrington born and bred and I've been living here for 29 years and neither of us have heard of Pea Wet.

My mate was from Runcorn/Frodsham way, so maybe it was from that area. I’ve only ever heard it from him but it just amused me - such a great phrase if true.

 

[darkbright]

More Wigan way it seems.

Weird chippy foods

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The use of imperial UOM like US gallons, pounds and degrees F annoy me.

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi All

Errmmm ... I'm not sure whether this adds to or detracts from the argument for changing the words we use for things, after all the points around language evolving are very valid ... but can I just point out that part of the "issue" the OP seems to be having troubles with may well be that using "krausen" to mean the froth on top of fermenting wort is basically wrong anyway ... "krausen" means fermenting wort, and "to krausen" means to add fermenting wort to fermented wort for the purposes of priming (for carbonation) ... I know that by using phrases like "krausen scum" and monitoring for "high krausen" by watching the hisght of the foam on the top, and with developers of FVs designing in "krausen rings", it's implied that krausen is (just) the foamy stuff on top ... but it really does mean ALL of the contents of the FV during fermentation, not just the froth

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Clint]

Krausen scum.... underhanded home brewers.

 

[Linalmeemow]

My wife is Warrington born and bred and I've been living here for 29 years and neither of us have heard of Pea Wet.

I grew up 20 minutes drive from Wigan and pea wet is definitely common in north west chippies. Also, a Wigan kebab is definitely a pie in a barm!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

3 pies on a stick is a joke

 

[Linalmeemow]

3 pies on a stick is a joke

Pies are no laughing matter to a Wiganer.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Pies are no laughing matter to a Wiganer.

I worked for Heinz at Kitt Green so I know all about Wiganers.

 

[Linalmeemow]

I worked for Heinz at Kitt Green so I know all about Wiganers.

I played rugby for Orrell when I was a lot younger, only a mile or so away...

 

[darkbright]

Hi All

Errmmm ... I'm not sure whether this adds to or detracts from the argument for changing the words we use for things, after all the points around language evolving are very valid ... but can I just point out that part of the "issue" the OP seems to be having troubles with may well be that using "krausen" to mean the froth on top of fermenting wort is basically wrong anyway ... "krausen" means fermenting wort, and "to krausen" means to add fermenting wort to fermented wort for the purposes of priming (for carbonation) ... I know that by using phrases like "krausen scum" and monitoring for "high krausen" by watching the hisght of the foam on the top, and with developers of FVs designing in "krausen rings", it's implied that krausen is (just) the foamy stuff on top ... but it really does mean ALL of the contents of the FV during fermentation, not just the froth

Cheers, PhilB

I'm not having any trouble at all and was just using some examples to get the ball rolling. My post was really only a way of introducing the topic of the changing nature of terminology and how the old English terms have been lost. It was intended to be a light-hearted way of seeing if anyone else knew more traditional brewing terms that I wasn't aware of.

I stand corrected on the Krausen issue. I think most people would probably use the term in the same way. In all honestly, I don't think I discuss actual brewing with many people at all - it's just me in my shed mostly wondering what I've done wrong with the beer this time.

 

[Sadfield]

Hi All

Errmmm ... I'm not sure whether this adds to or detracts from the argument for changing the words we use for things, after all the points around language evolving are very valid ... but can I just point out that part of the "issue" the OP seems to be having troubles with may well be that using "krausen" to mean the froth on top of fermenting wort is basically wrong anyway ... "krausen" means fermenting wort, and "to krausen" means to add fermenting wort to fermented wort for the purposes of priming (for carbonation) ... I know that by using phrases like "krausen scum" and monitoring for "high krausen" by watching the hisght of the foam on the top, and with developers of FVs designing in "krausen rings", it's implied that krausen is (just) the foamy stuff on top ... but it really does mean ALL of the contents of the FV during fermentation, not just the froth

Cheers, PhilB

Perhaps krausen became shorthand for foam on top of bottom fermenting lagers to differentiate it from yeast laden barm from top fermenting yeast, when both became commonplace in UK breweries.

 

[Hew's Brews]

Don't know about anyone else but the day I call water `liquor' will be a sad day indeed.

I went to a "meet the brewer" evening at a local pub a couple of years ago with the head brewer from Bateman's. He said they drew "water" from the well but after they had added their salts and minerals prior to adding to the mash it became "liquor".

 

[LabourToRefreshment]

I would agree that the English of the early settlers is not identical with that spoken today in England, but I think it far more likely that the the two strands have both evolved and evolved independently of each other.

Not so sure about that. One thing which particularly grates on the ear of modern British English speakers is the American usage "gotten", yet if we refer to the King James Bible we find (Genesis ch4 v1) "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD". There are many more biblical examples of "gotten" and "begotten", and in modern British we have no problem with "forgotten" from the same root verb, and the usage lingers on in the phrase "ill gotten gains".

In this case, it is not the American variety which has evolved!

 

[An Ankoù]

Not so sure about that. One thing which particularly grates on the ear of modern British English speakers is the American usage "gotten", yet if we refer to the King James Bible we find (Genesis ch4 v1) "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD". There are many more biblical examples of "gotten" and "begotten", and in modern British we have no problem with "forgotten" from the same root verb, and the usage lingers on in the phrase "ill gotten gains".

In this case, it is not the American variety which has evolved!

Interesting point, especially as the KJ Bible and the first colony in America are at almost exactly the same time. Bibles would certainly have been the mainstay of literature in those days . And in this case you're right. But it doesn't make sense to me to say that one strand of the language has evolved or changed while the other strand hasn't. Certainly there'll be some usages that have been taken across the Pond that reflect usage in the Old Country. That's a far cry from saying that modern American English is a Snapshot of 17C "British" English.