Replacing Continental/American brewing terms to bring back UK brewing terminology

[An Ankoù]

The word "wort" has a fascinating origin. It seems to be a cognate with some germanic languages' word for "root" as in St John's wort.

But also seems to be used in Scandinavia and Iceland to mean pretty much the same as wort in English. It's not at all clear whether the two usages are related.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wortInteresting, too, how the pronunciation of wort is like that of word.

 

[darkbright]

Pea wet is a phrase from the Runcorn/Warrington area, so I have heard. It's what kids ask for with their chips when they can't afford to get the peas themselves. It's basically the water the peas are sitting in.

 

[darkbright]

I think the OP is wondering, as I do, why we have adopted another country's jargon when we have a rich technical language of our own.

Essentially yes. I understand that language moves on and the lexicon will change over time. I do think its a shame that we lose words so easily. I suppose I'm getting more nostalgic as I get older.

 

[An Ankoù]

Essentially yes. I understand that language moves on and the lexicon will change over time. I do think its a shame that we lose words so easily. I suppose I'm getting more nostalgic as I get older.

I know what you mean. I'm just a grumpy old buggger who'll resist this sort of erosion anyway. On the other hand, as we become more and more international, we will probably settle on internationally recognised terms. Doubt very much if Brexit will protect us from that as we're simply too willing to adapt and sound "with it".

 

[terrym]

Essentially yes. I understand that language moves on and the lexicon will change over time. I do think its a shame that we lose words so easily. I suppose I'm getting more nostalgic as I get older.

One of the biggest hijacks of the English language which has occurred in my lifetime is the use of the word 'gay'.

 

[chthon]

Probably when we adopted continental equipment and techniques when breweries started making lager around the 1830s.

It is more the opposite, the continental brewers first had a good look at British brewing, and then updated their ways of working to that.

And as for lager brewing in the UK, at Shut Up About Barclay-Perkins (Ronald Pattinson), it can be seen in a whole lot of articles that lager brewing in the UK was not as straightforward introduced as you suppose.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I have heard of Barm cakes but never knew how they got their name.

BARM CAKE.
The word used by people in the north west of England, including Manchester. In a poll conducted by The Bolton News, 4 out of 6 shoppers used the term barm. The name came from the use of the foam on top of beer- which is called barm, this was used to help the bread to rise. In Wigan, a pie served between a barm cake is known locally as a “Wigan Kebab.”

A Wigan kebab is 3 pies on a stick and a balanced diet in Wigan is a pie in each hand

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

I love the traditional terms. Coming at it from the perspective of a new brewer though, I remember when brewing seemed daunting enough. Imagine if the terminology was a confusing mix of old and new.
Maybe a love for the traditional terminology should be something we share over a few beers.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

My mother wo

Well..not really as the ones who used to do that stuff are long dead...
They were however German immigrants, university educated,two brothers..one was in the brewery one founded Monsanto chemicals..
They made black lagers to start I think..

my mother worked for Monsanto in Cefn.

 

[kelper]

I tried to find out why we use German brewing terms. I'm sure we got them from USA but I'm not sure when, why or how. This is interesting......

In English, dumb means mute, but in US English it means stupid as it comes from the German word dumm

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

I know what you mean. I'm just a grumpy old buggger who'll resist this sort of erosion anyway. On the other hand, as we become more and more international, we will probably settle on internationally recognised terms. Doubt very much if Brexit will protect us from that as we're simply too willing to adapt and sound "with it".

I, like, totally agree. It frustrates me no end that we seem to be in an age where linguistic erosion seems to be acceptable.

 

[kelper]

Language has always changed! Just read Chaucer!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

My wife is Warrington born and bred and I've been living here for 29 years and neither of us have heard of Pea Wet.

 

[An Ankoù]

Language has always changed! Just read Chaucer!

That's an interesting proposition, Kelper. It's worth giving Chaucer a quick once over to see whether there are any beer-related terms that are still recognisable. Might have more luck with Pepys, as an afterthought.

It frustrates me no end that we seem to be in an age where linguistic erosion seems to be acceptable.

It's no better in this neck of the woods. Here we have the Académie Française to guard the purity of the language, but does anyone give so much as a fetid dingo's kidney? Not on your Nelly. If you want to see a language change from day to day, come to France!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Has anyone read Bill Bryson's book "Made in America ". It argues that the language taken to America by the early English settlers still exists there but has changed in Britain. Obviously ignore the spellings which was a one off in the late 1800's.

 

[An Ankoù]

Has anyone read Bill Bryson's book "Made in America ". It argues that the language taken to America by the early English settlers still exists there but has changed in Britain. Obviously ignore the spellings which was a one off in the late 1800's.

No, but I've read History of Nearly everything and thoroughly enjoyed it.
I've heard that argument before and I'm not convinced. I would agree that the English of the early settlers is not identical with that spoken today in England, but I think it far more likely that the the two strands have both evolved and evolved independently of each other. Look at all the other immigration into "America", those would have influenced the language there in a different way to influences in Britain. I think things are beginning to turn full circle and the two strands are coming back together again, slowly. I just hope we don't pick up the "drawl".

 

[Sadfield]

It is more the opposite, the continental brewers first had a good look at British brewing, and then updated their ways of working to that.

And as for lager brewing in the UK, at Shut Up About Barclay-Perkins (Ronald Pattinson), it can be seen in a whole lot of articles that lager brewing in the UK was not as straightforward introduced as you suppose.

It's feasible that the two groups of brewers learnt from each other and adopted what they found useful. Including a common language.

Any supposition I've apparently made was from Ron's books and word of mouth. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[kelper]

Has anyone read Bill Bryson's book "Made in America ". It argues that the language taken to America by the early English settlers still exists there but has changed in Britain. Obviously ignore the spellings which was a one off in the late 1800's.

Yes. Words like 'military' which is still pronounced with every syllable in US English but is shortened to MIL-A-TREE in our English. How do we know how it was pronounced 200 years ago? From court records! The clerks or scribes were often poorly educated and spelled phonetically, so we can be fairly certain how words were pronounced.

 

[Cwrw666]

Don't know about anyone else but the day I call water `liquor' will be a sad day indeed.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

Maybe we should take into consideration, that what we imagine to be ‘proper’ English, is an amalgamation of other languages from early settlers. The names of our days of the week, for instance, we can thank the Vikings for those. Thor’s day, Thursday etc. The same goes for many of our place names etc. Plenty of words In common parlance are Latinate in origin, french, old English, Saxon....