Recomendation for Water Analysis
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I got one done by Neil Williams at Phoenix Analytical. He does a monthly run of samples, depending on demand. You can send an email to: [email protected]
He gives values for all the ions you might be interested in so you can play around with the various online calculators.
He gives values for all the ions you might be interested in so you can play around with the various online calculators.
@m_kc in case you weren't aware, if you're on Thames Water then you should be able to get a report for your postcode area here: Check your water quality | Help | Thames Water
Further to above, I have found the email from Phoenix which details the info they supply (I have an idea that Murphy's omits one of the measures, but you'd need to check). Apparently Murphy's also recommends adjustments but I didn't use them so can't comment further. (The price quoted was in September 2020)
The parameters covered by the analysis are those listed below
Sodium
Potassium
Magnesium
Calcium
Chloride
Nitrate
Phosphate
Sulphate
Total alkalinity expressed as calcium carbonate
pH
electrical conductivity
These allow you to complete the most commonly available calculators so that there are no gaps
Currently I do this for the sum of £28 (no VAT) as I de-registered when I went into 'virtual' retirement.
I require a minimum of 250mL of water but as it costs the same money to send 50mL to 500mL no extra cost is incurred by sending more. Old water bottles are ideal for this but please avoid using one that has previously contained carbonated water as it may affect the pH of the water. Just put some tape round the cap to make sure the post office cannot manage to 'magic it off'.
The parameters covered by the analysis are those listed below
Sodium
Potassium
Magnesium
Calcium
Chloride
Nitrate
Phosphate
Sulphate
Total alkalinity expressed as calcium carbonate
pH
electrical conductivity
These allow you to complete the most commonly available calculators so that there are no gaps
Currently I do this for the sum of £28 (no VAT) as I de-registered when I went into 'virtual' retirement.
I require a minimum of 250mL of water but as it costs the same money to send 50mL to 500mL no extra cost is incurred by sending more. Old water bottles are ideal for this but please avoid using one that has previously contained carbonated water as it may affect the pH of the water. Just put some tape round the cap to make sure the post office cannot manage to 'magic it off'.
Thank you for the link! I'm in Oxford - Just looking at the requirements for Brun Water I think I'm missing values for Magnesium and Bicarbonate.
Excellent - I think Thames Water supplies most of Oxford...? if not, then your water supply company can probably supply an equivalent report
If you're missing the Magnesium figure then just assume zero, you won't go too far wrong.
For Bicarbonate you can normally get it by entering the 'total hardness expressed as CaCO3' or some such... otherwise, just keep entering different values for it until the Ions balance up...
Phoenix all day long. I don't trust Murphy's as I bought some acid of them years ago when it was allowed and of course it listed a strength but after a few bad results I tested it myself and it was different if they can test their own products properly they are not touching my water. Using water company reports would be just guess work they are too generic.
I'm in South Oxfordshire and I paid for a Murphy's test, which was quick and easy and detailed, but the main thing is taught me was just how incredibly accurate the latest Thames Water report for my area was, so I will just rely on Thames Water from now on.
When I lived in Herefordshire we were supplied by Welsh Water, who were very helpful and provided a complete detailed analysis. Here in Gloucestershire we are supplied by Severn Trent. I asked them for an analysis and queried all the missing bits - their reply was "we only test the things we are legally required to". Not very helpful, so I opted to go down the RO route.
Hi I'll second what trueblue suggests. Phoenix every time fore me. Great service
Regards
Patch
Regards
Patch
Cheshire Cat
Landlord.
I've just looked again at the United Utilities water report and can someone please explain the difference between Alkalinity and Hardness . They are both expressed a CaCO3 and are as follows
Min. Average. Max
Alkalinity 12. 72. 173
Hardness 14 170 292
Min. Average. Max
Alkalinity 12. 72. 173
Hardness 14 170 292
martin1256
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My problem with getting water tested is how can you be certain the water your going to treat is the same as what you sent off for testing, by that I mean how consistent is the water coming out of your tap. When you get your results will the water still have exactly the same chemical make up as the sample you sent? I have trouble with excess magnesium salts, I contacted Anglian Wafter who told me the water on one side of the road can be different from the other! Therefore how can we get consistency?
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Good question - FWIW there is some variability and indeed when I got my sample tested we were in the middle of a major drought and water shortage. I was concerned that the ions would be more concentrated or something (!) and/or that TW would be getting top-up water from other sources.
In the end I was within fractions of a percent on all the major minerals and total hardness to the TW report I had obtained from, I think, two years previous. It may well depend on where you are and who your provider is but I haven't worried about it since.
EDIT - I will still probably get my water tested every five years or so just to be sure.
I get mine tested every year and there is only slight variations. I also test the alkalinity before EVERY brew and the calcium every few brews as I believe these are the most important and they do vary but only very slightly. All other parameters are fairly constant.
IainM
Landlord.
Water companies often supply deviations with their chemical analysis - i.e. the range in the samples they took, as well as the change since the previous analysis. This should give you some indication of how stable your water composition is.
IainM
Landlord.
Hardness is a measure of how much mineral you have in your water, mostly minerals involving calcium and magnesium (and traces of manganese), balanced with carbonates and bicarbonates. It correlates with how much limescale you can expect to get in your kettle. As there are multiple different minerals which contribute to it, hardness is usually expressed in terms of a quantity of one mineral, as if that mineral contributed all the hardness. In this case calcium carbonate, CaCO3.
Alkalinity is related to hardness, but is a measure of how the water reacts to acids. If you were to put the same amount of acid into low and high alkalinity water, then the pH would drop more in the low alkalinity water than the high alkalinity water. This is what is important for brewing, because you want the malt to drop the pH to around the 5.4 mark for the mash, so your grain bill might be too light to hit the mark if you've got high alkalinity water, or you might overshoot if you've got low alkalinity and you're brewing something strong and dark. Alkalinity is also caused by multiple minerals but is usually expressed as if all the alkalinity is caused by one mineral. Again, CaCO3 is used.
If it actually was the case that all the hardness and alkalinity was all caused by only one mineral, such as CaCO3, then alkalinity and hardness would be exactly the same number. However, because non-CaCO3 minerals contribute differently to alkalinity than to hardness, in any real world water containing a mixture of minerals, they will be different. That said, they are usually pretty similar in value because they are both caused by the same set of minerals.
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MmmBeer
Brewer
That's a question that I have struggled to understand, since I started looking into water treatment a few years ago and I can't find a simple answer, but I'll try to explain as best as I know. Here goes.
Hardness is caused by insoluble or partially soluble salts in the water, primarily carbonate and bicarbonate salts of calcium and magnesium (plus a few other metals). The total hardness is measured by removing all of those salts from a sample of water using a chemical and weighing what was removed. This gives a figure in mg/litre, but is converted into ppm CaCO3 equivalent by diviting by 50 (atomic weight of CaCO3 is 100, but as Ca2+ ion has a double charge, this is halved). Note, not all of this hardness will be due to calcium carbonate, but it is assumption that makes different samples easier to compare.
Alkalinity is a measure the amount of acid that would be needed to reduce the pH of a sample of water to a fixed level (usually pH4.5). If the water contained no carbonates, very little acid would be needed, however carbonates and bicarbonates act as buffers by reacting with the acid and releasing CO2, damping any change in pH. So the measured figure is the sum of the amount of carbonates present and the small amount needed to alter the unbuffered pH, but it is again converted to CaCO3 equivalent in the same way for comparison.
I know IainM just beat me to it, but I'm determined to finish..
Cheshire Cat
Landlord.
Thank you both for the explanation you have added to my understanding.
Skippi
Active Member
Little off topic - For anyone supplied by Affinity Water, they seem to provide a potentially useful water report / analysis.
This is for the Woking area (other areas are available) - https://www.affinitywater.co.uk/docs/water-quality/AF066.pdf
That said, I know virtually zero about water treatment for brewing so do not know if the report contains all that is needed, but hopefully useful all the same for anyone in the area.
This is for the Woking area (other areas are available) - https://www.affinitywater.co.uk/docs/water-quality/AF066.pdf
That said, I know virtually zero about water treatment for brewing so do not know if the report contains all that is needed, but hopefully useful all the same for anyone in the area.
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