Q for the no chill brewers

[chuffer]

I use BrewMate for my recipes, it has a "no chill" selection box, which makes some kind of notional adjustment. I have a steel fermenter so I just dump the hot wort straight into it and pitch my yeast next day, but like MyQul I mostly brew darker beers!

Cheers. Ive just downloaded, cor that no chill selection box near enough doubles the IBUs!..took the bittering hops out of my recipe and it looks about reasonable now which i think is in line with other people's thoughts

 

[Hoppyland]

I always no-chill, and I like very hoppy, but not excessively bitter, beers. I pretty much always use my own recipes.
My method is broadly this:
I use a relatively small amount of bittering hops at the start of the boil. Typical would be 10g Warrior (alpha acid around 15) for a 20 litre batch. According to my Beersmith software, this hop addition should add 21.7 bittering units (IBUs) to the beer after a 60min boil. If I adjust the "boil time" in the software to 120mins, this rises to 22.5, and 240 mins gives 22.6. It therefore seems that no-chill should make little difference for these hops.

After the boil, I pop a new bin-bag over the top of my boiler (its an electric Buffalo "tea urn" type), pull it down so that it covers the entire boiler, and leave it for a few hours to cool down to around 80-85°C. Below 80°C, it is generally reckoned that hops will contribute little bitterness to the beer. The bin bag is to reduce the chance of contaminants getting into the beer, although at this stage there should be little danger as 80°C is around pasteurisation temperature. I then add my "flavour" hop addition. I generally use relatively low alpha acid hops here (Wa-iti or Lemondrop would be typical for me). One recipe I like a lot uses 60g Wa-iti and 50g Lemondrop at this stage (for a 20l brew). The bin bag is then replaced, pulled tight around the bottom of the boiler again, and I leave it all to cool down until sometime the following day. It can take a long time to cool depending upon ambient temperature.

My third hop addition is dry hops. I do this after fermentation is very nearly complete. Here, I will use relatively high alpha-acid hops (Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe) as the temperature will be around 20°C, and these should add little or no bitterness at this temperature, even though I'm using a lot of hops (maybe 120g in 20l), but they will add lots of aroma.
This way, I get a beer with loads of hop presence, but as flavour and aroma rather than bitterness. I've also tried using a separate flavour addition. Here, I just let the whole boiler full cool to room temperature, with only the small amount of bittering hops in it. I then draw off a few litres of wort, heat it up on the stove to 85°C and add the flavour hops. Doing it this way, I can gauge the bitterness addition of the flavour hops more accurately. For instance, Beersmith tells me that 60g Wa-iti and 50g Lemondrop steeped for 60mins at 85°C should contribute around 20 IBU to a 20l brew, so my beer should come out at around 42 IBU. Quite bitter, but not hugely so for a hoppy IPA. After the 60min steep, I put the pan in the bath with lots of cold water, so it cools very quickly. I then pour it into the fermenter with the remainder of the wort from the boiler. This method also works well, and should give a more repeatable result, but I usually don't bother with the extra faff.

 

[cheeseyfeet]

What are people's thoughts on racking the boiling wort onto hop pellets in the cube?

I've done this a few times and have been surprised with the flavour contribution.

 

[Cwrw666]

I've always no-chilled. The later hop additions do add more bitterness than you may want - so what I do is when I'm making a new beer, I make it exactly like the recipe. Then decide what I think of the finished product and maybe adjust a few things the next time I brew it.
For example, first time I did Greg Hughes English IPA I found it a bit too bitter for my taste so the next time I reduced the bittering hops by 10%. Result was much better.
On the other hand I slightly increased the hops and some of the malts in his Northern Brown recipe.

 

[samale]

What are people's thoughts on racking the boiling wort onto hop pellets in the cube?

I've done this a few times and have been surprised with the flavour contribution.

That's what I do and they sit in there until I transfer the next day

 

[Drunkula]

As others have said, so long as you separate the wort and the hops at end of boil then there's no need to change your recipes for no-chilling

The extra heat still isomerises the hop oils they've left so you do need to change it a bit.

I've never heard anybody talk about protafloc with no-chill. Recent recommendations for normal brewing is put it in at 5 mins rather than 15 because eventually it gets less effective so I wonder if it should be thrown in the cube or flame-out at latest.

 

[Nicks90]

I no chill and just build my recipe around 60 Min bittering hop addition, 15min and then flameout hop additions.
When I turn off the power I add the flameout hops and leave it 20 mins - which is what I punch in to BF software.
Then drag the hop bag out and dump the wort in to my fv and seal it up overnight to cool.
So its no different to anyone else that does no chill and I can't see how it affects the overall IBU if the hops are removed before you either use a chiller or no chill

 

[Drunkula]

I can't see how it affects the overall IBU if the hops are removed before you either use a chiller or no chill

The hops oils are still in there isomerising even if the hops are removed.

 

[Nicks90]

The hops oils are still in there isomerising even if the hops are removed.

Maybe that's why I always prefer to be brewing iPa's with no more than 30ibu and ales at about 20 according to the BF recipe? Which from what you are saying would put them up by 5-10 ibus

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

I have a no chill question I wonder if someone can help with.

I am just starting to drink a Citra / Cascade BIAB IPA which I used no chill for. I am totally happy with how it turned out- in fact probably best beer I ever made and certainly best of my AG's so far- taste's great, good Citra aroma (despite it being 2 parts Citra to 1 part Cascade other than the dry hop which was equal parts of both), good carbonation, great lacing- but if I drink it cold from the fridge it isn't very clear. I understand that this is chill haze and fthe act I didn't chill it means there was no cold break to help clarity. Is there any way I can get cleer beer using the no chill method- or is it unavoidable? I will mainly be brewing IPA's / pales.

If it's a bit cloudy I don't mind drinking it a little warmer, or indeed it being a bit hazy, but interested to know. A (not very good) pic is attached.

Thanks all.

 

[PhilBrew]

As others have said, so long as you separate the wort and the hops at end of boil then there's no need to change your recipes for no-chilling

The extra heat still isomerises the hop oils they've left so you do need to change it a bit.

... No ... the alpha acids and the hop oils are completely different things, hop oils are volatile and given up from the hops very readily, non-isomerised alpha acids are really not very soluble, more than half of them will never be able to be extracted from the hops no matter how long you boil them for ... very little of any non-isomerised alpha acids will be left in boiling wort once the hops are removed.

All the confusion over whether recipes need adjusting is created as a result of lots of different brewers, using lots of different techniques (some separating hops and wort before leaving to cool, others leaving hops and wort to cool together, others still actively "cube-hopping") and all of them calling those different techniques by the same name "no-chilling"

Cheers, PhilB

 

[foxy]

I have a no chill question I wonder if someone can help with.

I am just starting to drink a Citra / Cascade BIAB IPA which I used no chill for. I am totally happy with how it turned out- in fact probably best beer I ever made and certainly best of my AG's so far- taste's great, good Citra aroma (despite it being 2 parts Citra to 1 part Cascade other than the dry hop which was equal parts of both), good carbonation, great lacing- but if I drink it cold from the fridge it isn't very clear. I understand that this is chill haze and fthe act I didn't chill it means there was no cold break to help clarity. Is there any way I can get cleer beer using the no chill method- or is it unavoidable? I will mainly be brewing IPA's / pales.

If it's a bit cloudy I don't mind drinking it a little warmer, or indeed it being a bit hazy, but interested to know. A (not very good) pic is attached.

Thanks all.

The cold break forms when the wort has cooled, when I used to no chill and filter with a helix next day after the wort has cooled the cold break is at the bottom of the cube.
You can get clear beers with no chill, what causes chill haze is polyphenols for the home brewer this usually occurs in the mash or sparging.

From George Fix.

1. Beer Clarification

The most obvious benefit of cold maturation is the precipitation of haze active polyphenols and proteins. The cold conditions also encourages yeast flocculation. It is my experience that the beer should clarify within the first week of storage. This is possibly why two week cycles for ales, and three week cycles for lagers are so widely used in commercial brewing.

Failure to clarify during the first week of storage is usually due to technical errors. Poor quality malt and/or dysfunctional yeast are obvious culprits. Errors in mashing and sparging cannot be ruled out either. The solution in these cases is not to extend the aging period, but rather to correct original problem.

 

[Hengoedbrewer]

The cold break forms when the wort has cooled, when I used to no chill and filter with a helix next day after the wort has cooled the cold break is at the bottom of the cube.
You can get clear beers with no chill, what causes chill haze is polyphenols for the home brewer this usually occurs in the mash or sparging.

From George Fix.

1. Beer Clarification

The most obvious benefit of cold maturation is the precipitation of haze active polyphenols and proteins. The cold conditions also encourages yeast flocculation. It is my experience that the beer should clarify within the first week of storage. This is possibly why two week cycles for ales, and three week cycles for lagers are so widely used in commercial brewing.

Failure to clarify during the first week of storage is usually due to technical errors. Poor quality malt and/or dysfunctional yeast are obvious culprits. Errors in mashing and sparging cannot be ruled out either. The solution in these cases is not to extend the aging period, but rather to correct original problem.

Interesting... Thanks Foxy... Not sure where / how I need to work on mashing and sparging then but looks like that is where the issue likely is then...

 

[chuffer]

Another question for the no-chill crew....are people boiling for 60mins or 90mins?

 

[foxy]

Another question for the no-chill crew....are people boiling for 60mins or 90mins?

The length of boil doesn't matter its up to you, as long as you put your bittering hops in at 60 mins on a 90 minute boil.

 

[chuffer]

The length of boil doesn't matter its up to you, as long as you put your bittering hops in at 60 mins on a 90 minute boil.

Sorry the query wasnt to do with hops this time, more so the potential issue or non-issue of DMS

 

[foxy]

Sorry the query wasnt to do with hops this time, more so the potential issue or non-issue of DMS

You will find most boil for 60 mins.

 

[Hoppyland]

I always boil for 60 mins. But, it's not a vigorous boil - I just set my Buffalo boiler to max & leave it to do its own thing for 60 mins. I never brew lagers, my base malt is invariably Crisp Clear Choice.

 

[Smileyr8]

Out of interest does everyone no chill into the cubes (as I've seen on the Oz sites) then purge the existing air, or can you go direct to the fermentation bin?

 

[AnimatedGIF]

Out of interest does everyone no chill into the cubes (as I've seen on the Oz sites) then purge the existing air, or can you go direct to the fermentation bin?

I do use a cube, as my fermenter has a decent amount of headspace. I squeeze the small amount of remaining air as best I can before sealing and leaving to cool.