Pressure fermenting

[Buffers brewery]

Thinking about giving pressure fermentation a try. Before I do, got a couple of questions..

Is there a preferred pressure to ferment at?
Is fermentation temperature the same as non-pressure fermentation.
Presume end of fermentation is confirmed by SG measurement of a couple of samples.
Do you still cold crash for 2-3 days.
Do you condition in the pressure fermenter or transfer then condition.
Can you leave the beer in the fermenter (on the trub) and serve from the fermenter.
Are the benefits of pressure fermenting just time saving.

Think that’s it. Thanks in advance.

 

[foxy]

What you have to ask yourself is what beers do I like. If you like English ales then the best pressure to ferment at is 1 atmosphere.
The whole concept behind pressure fermenting was to carbonate your beer during fermentation, which means capping just before fermentation has finished. I will say that carbonation carried out this way does give a different mouth feel, on the positive side. Why would it be any different than carbing with sugar, I don't know, but it is.
I have had clear beer without cold crashing, but only when the pressure was to high and the yeast dropped out, otherwise a cold crash cycle is needed to drop clear.
Best to transfer to a secondary fermenter to condition.
There is no time saving, that is a misconception, fermenting at a higher temperature whether under pressure or not the time is the same.
By all means make a hoppy IPA or a faux lager, but for English beers just cap at the last couple of points before finishing.

 

[cheeseyfeet]

Hi,

I've just got myself a KL all rounder 35l and an extra Co2 tank and reg etc. to try pressure fermenting, so I'm not an expert by any means but this is what I intend to do -

• I prefer clean, light ales and lagers (Kolsch, Golden, Cream Ale etc.) so I will be fermenting at ~ 15 PSI to suppress esters. I will add the pressure at the very start of fermentation and control it to this level using a spunding valve.

• As the fermenter doesn't fit in my fermentation fridge (should've checked first!), I will be fermenting at ambient garage temps. This varies from about 12 to 20 C for me at this time of year.

• I'll be using style appropriate yeasts - I use dry, rehydrated.

• As I can't get the bloody thing in the fridge, I'll be leaving for a couple of days for the yeast to drop out once FG has been reached, but won't be able to follow my usual cold crash routine of chilling as close to 0 C as possible for 2 days.

• I'll pressure transfer to a purged corny keg , purge again, hit it with 20 PSI to seal, then get the keg in the kegerator at 7 C to chill and finish carbing at serving pressure and hopefully drop clear. I have floating dip tubes in my kegs, so if I have more trub than usual in the bottom because of the lack of cold crash this shouldn't be an issue.

Thats the plan for this weekend's brew anyway! Either a golden ale or a Kolsch, haven't decided yet.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[Buffers brewery]

Thanks @foxy and @cheeseyfeet .

I do the occasional bitter and mild ales but prefer IPAs as my goto beer. From the stuff I’ve read on-line (mostly advertising for pressure fermenters) the claims are for significantly quicker process, no need to carbonate and the option of serving directly from the fermenter and no need to bottle or keg!? While this appears to be very attractive, I’m unsure about leaving beer on the trub for 6-8 weeks for a 5 gallon brew (in my case).

 

[uDicko]

• I prefer clean, light ales and lagers (Kolsch, Golden, Cream Ale etc.) so I will be fermenting at ~ 15 PSI to suppress esters. I will add the pressure at the very start of fermentation and control it to this level using a spunding valve.

My 2p. I've got the All Rounder and I've brewed a few where I put pressure on from the start. Reading around it may make more sense to let the yeast grow without pressure to begin with but set your spunding valve to 15psi so when it gets there you can just keep it. The yeast will generate the pressure you need.

Gives them an uninfluenced start on your wort.

 

[cheeseyfeet]

Good shout, I'll do this I think, makes sense not to stress the yeast from the very start.

 

[foxy]

It isn't just the pressure which stresses the yeast, and it doesn't take much, but not venting the CO2 means the CO2 is dissolved into the wort, which the yeast doesn't like either.
Best to raise the temperature a couple of degrees towards the end of fermentation and then cap the spunding valve to carbonate the beer.

 

[emerson909]

I’ve recently got into pressure fermenting as well. I’ve been brewing a basic Pilsner recipe with w34/70, fermenting at 21 deg c and applying 15 psi from the start. Once it gets to around 1.017 I set the spunding valve to 28 psi to carbonate to around 2.5 volumes. When fermentation is done (3-4 days) I cold crash to 1 deg c for 48 hours and drop the pressure gradually as it’s cooling so it’s around 10 psi at 1 deg c to keep the same carbonation. I’ve been transferring to a keg around day 7 and drinking straight away. I’ve found it’s a very clean fermentation with no noticeable off flavours but very young tasting (more hoppy less malt flavour), it definitely becomes more balanced over a couple of weeks in keg. It’s also pretty cloudy to begin. Agree with foxy the natural carbonation is noticeably better, i.e. tighter longer lasting head. Another benefit is no air is drawn in when cold crashing

 

[Buffers brewery]

Thanks guys for the advice.

What about this idea that you don’t have to bottle or keg from the pressure fermenter and you can use it as the “keg” and dispense from it, leaving the beer on the yeast (and any trub carry over)?

 

[emerson909]

I usually want to free up the fermenter to brew again so not tried it! I have got a picnic tap and had a couple of samples straight from the fermenter which works ok

 

[foxy]

Thanks guys for the advice.

What about this idea that you don’t have to bottle or keg from the pressure fermenter and you can use it as the “keg” and dispense from it, leaving the beer on the yeast (and any trub carry over)?

As emerson says, free up the fermenter, also you would have to take into consideration the time spent in the fermenter. Can't leave it in a PET fermenter for too long.

 

[Buffers brewery]

As emerson says, free up the fermenter, also you would have to take into consideration the time spent in the fermenter. Can't leave it in a PET fermenter for too long.

That’s interesting because the reason I asked the question was when I was digging around on the internet on the subject I came across a Kegland YouTube video on the Allrounder where they talk about serving from it. Screenshot from video...

 

[Buffers brewery]

BTW I get the freeing up the fermenter

 

[Spratt]

My experience is very similar to that of @cheeseyfeet, with a new Fermzilla and four brews so far. I've taken my Fermzilla off its stand and "float" it in a dustbin of water with an aquarium heater to keep the temperature constant.

I set the temperature at the maximum recommended by the yeast manufacturer e.g 25c for S-04, S-33 and US-05 which are the ones I've used so far. I set my spunding valve to 10 to 12 psi once the yeast has been pitched and let the yeast build up the pressure.

My brews have fermented faster than the ones I do without pressure. My quickest being 6 days from yeast pitch to transfer.

3 of the brews needed dry hopping and I'm still experimenting with that. The first was done via the collection bowl and worked fine. The second I did via a hop tea, poured into a 500ml fizzy water bottle, then pushed into the Fermzilla via a carbonation cap T piece. The third is still in the Fermzilla and was done with a mesh bag of hops suspended by magnets and dropped in on day 3.

I have transferred the brews under pressure in to a King Keg and two corny kegs. The KK one was just via an open hose into the bottom of the KK and is I think one of the best beers I have ever brewed. The corny ones have also proved nice, though the S-05 one which was a pretty standard American Pale Ale did have a TCP taint to it when I was testing gravities from the Fermzilla, though the taint has all but disappeared now it's being served from the corny.

I'm not fussed by cloudy beers so haven't need to cold crash. Also, I haven't tried storing and serving my beer from the Fermzilla as I have been wanting to get the next brew on.

If you've got the time there is a mine of information (41 pages worth!) on pressure brewing (not just with Fermentasaurus and Fermzillas) on this Aussie forum

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/kk-fermentasaurus-conical-pet-fermenter.93589/

 

[foxy]

That’s interesting because the reason I asked the question was when I was digging around on the internet on the subject I came across a Kegland YouTube video on the Allrounder where they talk about serving from it. Screenshot from video...
View attachment 31567

Same reason they do not use PET for beer bottles, PET is permeable, fine if you are going to drink it within a couple of months, keeping it cold will last a bit longer.
That is the reason I mentioned, 'not too long'
Something like the Coopers PET beer bottles have an oxygen scavenging barrier between two layer of PET and are fine for keeping beer in up to a year.

 

[phildo79]

FWIW, I got a kk snubnose a short time ago and am currently on my third brew. First brew was a pale ale, fermented at 10 psi. I thought this seemed too low as I had to top up the carb levels in the keg. Second brew was a NEIPA, which I am currently enjoying a glass of. I fermented this one at 20 psi and found that I did not have to top up the carb levels.

The pale ale has been in the keg about 5 weeks and the NEIPA 2 weeks. I can honestly say that the flavour and aroma of both has remained constant. This was my primary reason for getting the snubnose and it hasn't let me down. Very happy with it.

The brew I have on now is a milk stout and is set at 15 psi. Think I will just leave it in there until my NEIPA runs out. Which, by the looks of it, won't be very long.

 

[CEO Keg King]

Same reason they do not use PET for beer bottles, PET is permeable, fine if you are going to drink it within a couple of months, keeping it cold will last a bit longer.
That is the reason I mentioned, 'not too long'
Something like the Coopers PET beer bottles have an oxygen scavenging barrier between two layer of PET and are fine for keeping beer in up to a year.

We could make a fermenter with an oxygen scavenging barrier but then you cannot see wat is happening. The Junior can be supplied like this already on demand.

 

[foxy]

With the PET fermenters/kegs how long is the beer likely to stay in them? Not too long I would say.

 

[CEO Keg King]

With the PET fermenters/kegs how long is the beer likely to stay in them? Not too long I would say.

Exactly - mind you if it was a 60 litre it could take a bit longer.

 

[foxy]

What I find interesting about the video having watched it is Kee saying the all rounder can be used as a keg, yet only a week or so ago he was rubbishing the oppositions Junior fermenter/keg saying they can't be used as a keg!