Pressure Fermenting pressure Notes and guide

[Frisp]

Nope ! held my tongue as long as I can..

I was going ask admin to delete this thread as its gone down a route that only dilutes anything useful it could bring to the table..
But Im leaving the thread up , unless admin thinks otheriwse.

For what its worth. im not stomping off in the huff, I am simply withdrawing from the conversation to prevent me losing it and breaking several forum rules.

I intend to have a rethink how to present my idea of a place where we can share our experienes around pressure fermenting so we can all benefit.
Im a big believer that shared experience trumps almost every other education route.

To those who saw what I was trying to do thanks for your support and your input ,
For those who couldnt or wouldnt see the objective welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Sadfield]

The primary use of pressure fermenting ales is a substitute for temperature control in hot climates. The desired thread would likely return a majority of posts fermenting at 25-30°c with +15 PSI. How should one use that information? Artificially raising the temperature to allow the use of higher pressure, or ferment at uk ambient temperature with less pressure?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Nope ! held my tongue as long as I can..

I was going ask admin to delete this thread as its gone down a route that only dilutes anything useful it could bring to the table..
But Im leaving the thread up , unless admin thinks otheriwse.

For what its worth. im not stomping off in the huff, I am simply withdrawing from the conversation to prevent me losing it and breaking several forum rules.

I intend to have a rethink how to present my idea of a place where we can share our experienes around pressure fermenting so we can all benefit.
Im a big believer that shared experience trumps almost every other education route.

To those who saw what I was trying to do thanks for your support and your input ,
For those who couldnt or wouldnt see the objective welcome to my ignore list.

Sadly, this is just a consequence of an open forum like this. I thought your intentions were clear, but that doesn't mean others did. Some people want to read books and do everything "the best way", some like to play and share and talk about what they experienced with their own eyes, even if there are books on the subject (it's a hobby after all).

Same with conversations in a pub - they don't always go the direction you wanted.

Try to not get disheartened by it, and keep trying .

There are a few topics that people feel strongly about on this forum... Pressure fermenting is one of them.

 

[Gax]

Nope ! held my tongue as long as I can..

I was going ask admin to delete this thread as its gone down a route that only dilutes anything useful it could bring to the table..
But Im leaving the thread up , unless admin thinks otheriwse.

For what its worth. im not stomping off in the huff, I am simply withdrawing from the conversation to prevent me losing it and breaking several forum rules.

I intend to have a rethink how to present my idea of a place where we can share our experienes around pressure fermenting so we can all benefit.
Im a big believer that shared experience trumps almost every other education route.

To those who saw what I was trying to do thanks for your support and your input ,
For those who couldnt or wouldnt see the objective welcome to my ignore list.

Let me know what you come up with, I'd like to share my fooling about once I get my setup. Cheers bud.

 

[Sadfield]

Another "muppet" missing the point. It's not about brewing. The OP is only going to receive same quality of data they say "doesnt help anyone who wants to try pressure fermenting". They rejected shared experience in their first post. FFS.

Even these lager posts dont offer any solid guidance as they range from 10psi to 60psi with temp ranges that seem to run form 15C to a blistering 40C.

This doesnt help anyone who wants to try pressure fermenting.

 

[Sadfield]

Fill your boots.

Thread 'Fermenting Ales Under Pressure.' https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/fermenting-ales-under-pressure.104467/

 

[RoomWithABrew]

At least no one mentioned shortened boil length that put the cat among the pigeons a while ago.

 

[Sadfield]

At least no one mentioned shortened boil length that put the cat among the pigeons a while ago.

Or the 60-90 minute boil thread, not about short boiling, that also upset the short boilers.

None these process changes make a difference that can be noticed anyway.

 

[Agentgonzo]

At least no one mentioned shortened boil length that put the cat among the pigeons a while ago.

It's the forums equivalent of Godwin's law.

 

[foxy]

What started pressure fermenting for home brewers. It was a homebrewer who read this article by Teri Fahrendorf wrote this article and it was printed later in Zymurgy magazine.
https://www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

It was taken up in a different context than what was intended.
Here. 58 pages of reading.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique.44344/

It didn't take long for the manufacturers of home brew equipment to see the money-making potential of producing vessels and wholesaling at a hefty margin. Once the YouTube advertisers got on board then away it went.
Yes, I tried it I have made English bitters and a pseudo-lager what they miss out on is what yeast brings to the finished beer. Esters are a major player in the flavour of a beer, in fact in Coopers Sparkling and Pale Ale it is the main contributor to the flavour of the beer.
By all means, try it and draw your own conclusions, That is what I did and came to the conclusion it wasn't for me, beer is more than just malt and hops.

 

[Sadfield]

By all means, try it and draw your own conclusions, That is what I did and came to the conclusion it wasn't for me, beer is more than just malt and hops.

Now, now @foxy you'll go upsetting people by saving them time and money.

The underlying problem and the root of most threads is people buying gear or ingredients with no plan how they are going to use them, or of what the end product should be. No research, leads to asking the wrong questions and a broader range of answers. A bit like using AI, you need knowledge to ask a very specific question in order to not get nonsense returned. Getting angry about replies is their own insecurities presenting.

 

[hoppyscotty]

there is no such thing as the wrong questions. Sure people could spend years researching and never get round to doing anything. And what use are forums such as this if they are not for newbies asking questions and benefitting from others experiences and accumulated knowledge that at is far more accessible than reading the hundreds of books out there on the subject. And if you do read several books on the topic you’ll soon realise that they often say different things and even contradict one another so where does that leave you. Experimentation is always good but it takes several weeks to turn a beer round and with all the millions of different permutations and possibilities of how you can tweak a beer it’s not really a feasible strategy unless you’re just looking to compare just a very small number of variables.

I’ve found resources like the collective brain power available on this forum and YouTube invaluable and has taken years off my beer brewing journey to where I am today where I can consistently knock out a half decent brew I’m happy to share with people.

So be kind and remember we all started from a position of ignorance and are always ignorant to some extent as this is a journey with no destination.

 

[Sadfield]

there is no such thing as the wrong questions. Sure people could spend years researching and never get round to doing anything. And what use are forums such as this if they are not for newbies asking questions and benefitting from others experiences and accumulated knowledge that at is far more accessible than reading the hundreds of books out there on the subject.

Of course there is, if the question can't return the answer needed. But, even by that rediculous thinking, why get upset by the answers? They can't be wrong either.

I’ve found resources like the collective brain power available on this forum and YouTube invaluable and has taken years off my beer brewing journey to where I am today where I can consistently knock out a half decent brew I’m happy to share with people.

That collective brain power was rejected, in this instance, though. If you actually take the time to read the thread and not jump on the last comment.

 

[hoppyscotty]

The fact a question can’t return a sensible answer is not the fault of the question. I read the thread. A perfectly sensible question was asked, and rather than answering it some decided to offer up a derogatory and condescending response, much like this one.

If you don’t know the answer or a question there is no shame in that…you don’t have to respond or you can respond with an opinion. Or example of your own experience. But to berate and belittle questioner by criticising their curiosity is not really an acceptable response. There are no binary correct and incorrect answer in this game….or very few at least.

 

[Sadfield]

The OP's question can never be answered as no one but the OP knows what ester profile they want. Therefore another approach is needed to give the OP the tools to answer their own question.

Where was the OP initial question belittled or berrated? No posts have been for such?

I see multiple posters who've addressed the OPs question. Have you?

 

[hoppyscotty]

All he wanted to do was to set up a knowledge database: which seems like a good idea to me.

But instead was faced with challenges about why he was doing it, it was a pointless endeavour and he’s just a victim of the marketing forces and there is no need to use anything but am old stainless steel sink to ferment with, and why are you troubling us with this question when there are plenty of books and hours of lectures on line you can study before coming on a forum to ask questions.

I appreciate there are more than one way to skin a cat in this game with pros and cons of each but part of this game is trying new things to suss out what they’re about. You don’t always have a clear goal in mind, just giving it a go to see how it turns out.

I’m kind of on the same journey myself with pressure fermenting. Giving it a go to see how it might be useful and when is best to use it so am always interested in others experiences with it.

 

[Sadfield]

But instead was faced with challenges about why he was doing it, it was a pointless endeavour and he’s just a victim of the marketing forces and there is no need to use anything but am old stainless steel sink to ferment with, and why are you troubling us with this question when there are plenty of books and hours of lectures on line you can study before coming on a forum to ask questions.

Absolute poppycock. The OP was both provided with information about the effect of pressure on fermentation and asked questions to ascertain further information that may help people help. All met with distain from the OP.

As for stainless vessels, that was an ancillary conversation to the thread (based on the video), a bit like this one.

You still haven't provide the OP with any info regarding pressure settings and temperature? So less helpful than anyone else on the thread.

The hypocrisy is breath-taking.

The replies aren't flying in on the other thread you replied to, which confirms what was suspected, the OP won't get the replies and data they desire. So what now? How do we get the OP to make informed decisions on pressure fermenting?

 

[Sadfield]

Frisps extract pilsner
yeast : novalager
OG 1.040
FG: 1.008
Fermentation Time : 36 hrs to start from pitching then 5 days fermenting befre it stopped at 1.008
Pressure setting 12-13 psi
Ferment temp: initialy 17C had a heat pad malfunction and it dropped to 15C on day 3 raied temp to 18C to ferment out.
General ferment observations :
Tasting notes: at FG slightly lagery aroma, slightly sweet tasting. light in colour but cloudy
Things I Would change next time:

The most useful and reliable information in the whole thread.

There's cause and effect.

"Things I would change next time"?

No one can help with that until the OP tells us what result they want next time.

 

[Vinylwasp]

No need to. Gordon Strong sums it up nicely in the latest BYO. Pressure-fermented lager is as rough as guts. I think he is the only man walking this earth who has the expertise to claim that.

Here's what Gordon Strong said in
Rethinking Beer Faults

Lack of Smoothness in Lagers​

I welcome the trend of brewers making more lagers, but many brewers are misled into thinking there are no differences in making lagers and ales. People trying warm-fermented lagers under pressure can produce a beer with reduced esters, but they often lack the smoothness and flavor profile typical for the style since actual lagering isn’t taking place. Rushing the lagering stage often makes a beer seem rough and green, with elevated sulfury yeast flavors. Beers that have a yeast bite often will smooth with proper lagering. Personally, I really enjoy the smoothness of lagers on the palate, a sensation that goes away when the lagering is insufficient. I like to choose lager strains that don’t produce excessive sulfur, manage the fermentations to be as healthy as possible, and then take the time to lager the beer until it is ready. Don’t be afraid to taste the beer and then put it back into lagering if it seems too rough. Lager at as close to freezing (even slightly below freezing) to maximize the impact.

None of his criticism of the final product appears to be related to the use of pressure fermentation, but rather the brewers desire to produce lager quickly and skip or reduce the lagering time.

 

[Druncan]

My understanding is pressure fermenting can more easily stress yeasts. However, I have been using this for my early season pseudo lager @ 8-10psi using Novalager @ 12-15*C as it saves loads of slow fermenting time.

My 'experiments' follow my main brewing objective to be as efficient as possible. All grain days are a luxury! So,,,,,, I would humbly suggest doing experiments by removing uncertainty. I use HLME a perfect base for consistent wort. Simples

Happy brewing everyone and play nicely