Parti-Gyle Help Required

[Wez]

I want to have a go at parti-gyle brewing at the weekend and the plan I have in my head is this:

Mash enough pale pale malt and then top up once only to give me wort for a final 23L of 1.060 wort and boil that off with hops to 80 IBU for an IPA dry hopping in the keg.

Then, add crystal (5%) to the mash and mix and sparge to get a (yet to be known) volume of 1.044 wort that I can boil off seperately to give me a 4% bitter.

So, for my calculations what sort of efficiency should I base my first batch on, I noted that Oblivious based his on 60% for his Russian Imp Stout but i'm thinking that maybe 50% would be more realistic?

And, in all reality am I likely to get much 1.044 wort by sparging?

Basing the initial grain bill on 50% i'd be mashing :

8.8kg Pale Malt

Once run off i'd then be adding 5% Crystal which is 470g

What do you guy's think?

 

[Vossy1]

Sugar points young man

PM seveneer and he'll give you the low down...would be handy if he posted it too.
SteveD also knows all about it

 

[Wez]

He explained it once before to me I kind of understood it then but it's gone from my mind now I need it

I'll send him a PM :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

This is also useful clicky
and this

 

[Phil]

Evening all. Long time no see.

As requested..... Sugar points is what I call it but you'll find reference to it in that book by John Alexander, Craft Brewing.

It's nothing particularly special. It's basically the predicted extract from your grain. I came up with it after I looked at Warminster's grain spec sheets. Take a peek and you'll see theat they state LDK or something which stands for litre degrees per kilo. This means the number of degrees gravity you'll get from mashing 1 kilo in 1 litre of liquor in the lab environment. This is the basinc value that Promash uses to calculate the predicted gravity of your recipes. The efficiency is there to compensate for you not being in a lab environment.

But anyway, I digress, the essence is that if take a given amount of grain at a given efficiency you'll get a constant amount of sugar. I call it sugar points. Litres x degrees gravity!

So, if your recipe says you'll end up with 23 litres at 1.060 you want to sparge until you get 23 x 60 or 1380 points. Of course it's very unlikely that you will actually stop sparging at 23 litres and find the gravity at 1.060 (although I suppose it can happen).

So, whilst sparging you need to keep taking a gravity reading (a refractomer is handy here) every few minutes and multiplying the gravity by the volume. For example, you may end up with 10 litres at 1.100 so 10 x 100 means you have 1000 points of your required 1380. You carry on sparging and you find you have 12 litres at 1.098 so you have 1176 points.

Then a few minutes later you take a measurement and find you have 15 litres at 1.092 and low and behold you have 1380 sugar points (15 x 92). Hurrah This is where you stop sparging.

You'll find that if you dilute to 23 litres the gravity will drop to 1.060 which still equates to 1380 points.

Of course, you actually dilute to about 28 litres to allow for boil off. What happens is that the sugar stays constant. Dilute it and the gravity goes down, boil it and the gravity goes up BUT the volume changes inversely to the gravity hence the product of gravity and volume remains the same. In this case 1380.

If your recipe's correct you can then sparge the next batch to give you 23 x 44 or 1012 points.

I hope this helps. It's actually quite simple if you remeber that gravity x volume is constant so long as you don't add any more sugar.

/Phil.

 

[Wez]

Phil..you're a star :thumb: Nice to see you again

Thanks for posting that very useful indeed.

I'm going to digest it all now

 

[Wez]

That explanation is sooooooo useful

Cheers Phil :

 

[Phil]

:thumb:

No worries.

It's a funny thing because it's such a simple theory but I can't explain it simply. Once I get into examples a one line explanation turns into pages and pages.... :whistle:

/Phil.

 

[Wez]

:lol: Really glad you posted it, I think you've explained it really well.

Watch out for my brewday thread for this weekend to see how I get on :shock: :? :lol:

 

[Vossy1]

Phil, do you stir the runnings prior to taking the readings, to make sure they're mixed ?

 

[Phil]

Phil, do you stir the runnings prior to taking the readings, to make sure they're mixed ?

Yep!

/Phil.

 

[Wez]

Can't wait to get this brewed i'm gonna just collect my sugar points from a single run off and dilute down to pre-boil volume then boil down to final volume bittering to 80IBU with Goldings - then dry hop the keg with goldings

Then I'll add some crystal to the mash and sparge it and see what I end up with :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

It's going to be a monster :
I reckon we can turn you from shandy drinking to the hard side :drink: :drunk: :P

 

[Wez]

you think 1.060/80IBU will be ok :hmm:

 

[Smod]

Yeah!!!

 

[Vossy1]

you think 1.060/80IBU will be ok

If you brew the DP recipes to the letter, you simply add amounts of hops, ie, xg per gallon.
The AA isn't important, neither is the IBU/OG ratio.

AA's weren't known in the past when these great beers were made...I think we could learn something from that
It was the same with maturation times, a beer was ready when it tasted great :drink: not after x weeks.

 

[Phil]

That's a good point Vossy. I've done quite a few DP recipes and they all turn out better when I ignore what I think should be the IBU and just use the recommended amount of hops.

As it happens, most DP members do the same. A few will talk about IBU's but most talk in oz per gallon :thumb:

/Phil.

 

[Wez]

This is loosly based on a DP IPA but i've chosen not to add the sugar the recipe called for and get the gravity from all malt.

One question about IPA's Should I be adding a late hop addition?

I'm planning on dry hopping in the FV :?

 

[Aleman]

One question about IPA's Should I be adding a late hop addition?

I'm planning on dry hopping in the FV :?

It depends on whether you are brewing the DP 'recipe' or the 'style', if the recipe calls for a late hop addition do it . . . brewing practice at the time was to not use late hops . . . wasteful . . . . It is not recorded in the brewing ledgers if the casks received dry hops at delivery . . . but then with the casks in India that would be missed . . . . personally I suspect that they could very well have done . . . but at most it is likely to have been 1/10oz per gallon

 

[Phil]

In my humble opinion, I would suggest you definitely do add the extra sugar (a character of IPA is a dryness that you won't achieve with an all malt grist and such a strong beer) but the late hopping is up to you. If you aim to mature the beer for a long time, don't waste the hops. If you want to drink it fresh, do it.

Dry hopping is also pointless if you are planning on leaving the beer for 6 months or more to mature as an IPA "Should".

Personally, I drink my IPA's both matured and 1 week out of primary. I love the freshness but also the maturity. Ultimately it's a matter of taste.

/Phil.