Off flavours

[NeipaNutter]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. Almost every single beer I've made has ended up with the same off flavour after bottling. They taste amazing out of the f.v but something happens to them during priming. It only happens with pale ales and they don't look oxidised. But they taste harsh and it overpowers all the hop and malt flavour. I can't afford to start kegging yet so any help is very much appreciated.

 

[MyQul]

If your dark beers are fine it could be your water. I found this when I started doing AG, my dark beers were fine but my pales had a harsh tannin like flavour to them. My water is alkaline London water so I need to strip out the alkalinity with acid. My pales were fine then

 

[foxy]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. Almost every single beer I've made has ended up with the same off flavour after bottling. They taste amazing out of the f.v but something happens to them during priming. It only happens with pale ales and they don't look oxidised. But they taste harsh and it overpowers all the hop and malt flavour. I can't afford to start kegging yet so any help is very much appreciated.

While its difficult to determine what you are tasting from what you have written, it does sound like astringency. A reason why joining a club is advantages, when you can get experienced brewers to taste your beer and give you advice.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/homebrew-off-flavors

 

[NeipaNutter]

If your dark beers are fine it could be your water. I found this when I started doing AG, my dark beers were fine but my pales had a harsh tannin like flavour to them. My water is alkaline London water so I need to strip out the alkalinity with acid. My pales were fine then

Wort p.H is the only thing I haven't really tackled yet. I'll have to get myself a meter and some lactic acid.

 

[NeipaNutter]

While its difficult to determine what you are tasting from what you have written, it does sound like astringency. A reason why joining a club is advantages, when you can get experienced brewers to taste your beer and give you advice.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/homebrew-off-flavors

I wish I could send off my beers to someone but with the current situation I don't think I'll be able to do that for a while. What I find so strange is that the sample always tastes great on bottling day so I can only assume it's something going on during priming that's causing this off flavour. I'm careful not to splash the wort so I don't think it's oxidation. And all the off flavours I've read about seem like they should be apparent before bottling.

 

[MyQul]

Wort p.H is the only thing I haven't really tackled yet. I'll have to get myself a meter and some lactic acid.

You dont necessarily need a ph meter, I've never used one. I just bought a salifert alkalinty kit and some CRS solution to deal with the problem

 

[Stephenj]

You dont necessarily need a ph meter, I've never used one. I just bought a salifert alkalinty kit and some CRS solution to deal with the problem

You reckon you need the kit or could you just test tap water using hot tub testing strips? They have pH and alkaline on them.

 

[NeipaNutter]

You reckon you need the kit or could you just test tap water using hot tub testing strips? They have pH and alkaline on them.

I don't think those ones are precise enough? They tend to go from 1 to 14 whereas the more expensive homebrew ones go from 4 to 7 with all the decimal places in-between. At least that's what I think.

 

[MyQul]

You reckon you need the kit or could you just test tap water using hot tub testing strips? They have pH and alkaline on them.

'I'm not sure hot tub strips would be sensitive enough. iirc mash ph need to be 5.2 - 5.5. Im also not sure you can test alkalinity using a strip. I simply bought a salifert alkalinity kit and followed what to do on the instructional thread on jims forum (I think @strange-steve wrote one for our forum but if he did I cant find it now). Tbh I dont know a huge amount about water treatment and just strip out alkininity

 

[Stephenj]

Cool. Just trying to save money but like @NeipaNutter water pH isn't something I've really done yet. Might invest.

 

[An Ankoù]

While it sounds as though MyQul might have hit the nail on the head. I'm a bit worried that it tastes great from the FV, but not from the bottle. Could you tell us what you do during bottlling, how you clean the bottle, what with, whether you rinse, what you prime the bottles with.
Finally, how would you describe the "off" flavour?

 

[MyQul]

Cool. Just trying to save money but like @NeipaNutter water pH isn't something I've really done yet. Might invest.

Salifert kits are really cheap. I bought one for £8 off ebay and its lasted me ages (your supposed to test your water every time you brew but I dont as my water seems to stay within a range of akalinity so my test kit has lasted years)

 

[An Ankoù]

Why don't you try making a batch with bottled water and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Ghillie]

I wish I could send off my beers to someone but with the current situation I don't think I'll be able to do that for a while.

Why can't you? Postal service is functioning as normal.

Managed to identify a few faults with beers a wee while back, so I'm sure I'd manage to narrow things down with yours too.

Providing you and none of your family/friends have Covid, I'd be willing to sample it.

 

[NeipaNutter]

While it sounds as though MyQul might have hit the nail on the head. I'm a bit worried that it tastes great from the FV, but not from the bottle. Could you tell us what you do during bottlling, how you clean the bottle, what with, whether you rinse, what you prime the bottles with.
Finally, how would you describe the "off" flavour?

Okay so I do 10litre batches, mostly pale ales. I use tap water but I treat with campden. I haven't done any other water treatments yet but I've just ordered some stuff and got a water report. I ferment at around 18c and then bump the temp up slowly after a few days. For bottling I batch prime in a bottling bucket, sanitised with starsan, the bottles also sanitised with starsan. I've tried both making a sugar solution and putting the sugar straight into the bottles. I prime with dextrose. Sometimes I'm impatient and pop one after only a few days and the taste is there. I have about 10 bottles of the Greg Hughes American IPA left which was bottles back in February and they still have "that" taste which I can't really describe other than harsh.

 

[NeipaNutter]

Why can't you? Postal service is functioning as normal.

Managed to identify a few faults with beers a wee while back, so I'm sure I'd manage to narrow things down with yours too.

Providing you and none of your family/friends have Covid, I'd be willing to sample it.

I have two extremely asthmatic children so we're not going anywhere till this thing is over so won't be able to get to a post office. Thanks though.

 

[MyQul]

Where do you live btw we (forumites) could possibly look at you water providers water report for your area

 

[An Ankoù]

Okay so I do 10litre batches, mostly pale ales. I use tap water but I treat with campden. I haven't done any other at does water treatments yet but I've just ordered some stuff and got a water report. I ferment at around 18c and then bump the temp up slowly after a few days. For bottling I batch prime in a bottling bucket, sanitised with starsan, the bottles also sanitised with starsan. I've tried both making a sugar solution and putting the sugar straight into the bottles. I prime with dextrose. Sometimes I'm impatient and pop one after only a few days and the taste is there. I have about 10 bottles of the Greg Hughes American IPA left which was bottles back in February and they still have "that" taste which I can't really describe other than harsh.

Yep. That does sound like the water. I haven't used Starsan, but try rinsing it out- just in case. I would go for the bottled water experiment. Tesco's Ashbeck seems to be favourite on your side of the Channel. If that doesn't make a difference them we need to look elsewhere.

 

[Ghillie]

I have two extremely asthmatic children so we're not going anywhere till this thing is over so won't be able to get to a post office. Thanks though.

No worries.

As @An Ankoù says - what does "that taste" taste like? Twang, sour, cardboard, funky, butter, banana, peardrops, cabbage. But to name a few descriptors... There are lots of them.

10L batches means lots of trub, typically, do you find there's a lot of sediment in the bottom of your bottles?

 

[MyQul]

Yep. That does sound like the water. I haven't used Starsan, but try rinsing it out- just in case. I would go for the bottled water experiment. Tesco's Ashbeck seems to be favourite on your side of the Channel. If that doesn't make a difference them we need to look elsewhere.

I tried tasting star san once (in the interests of science, you underderstand ) It doesnt really taste of anything