No covid ***

[Northern_Brewer]

Another sad story - 51yo from Grimsby probably caught it down the social club watching the Croatia game on 13 June, died 13 July. Friend in his 20s also got it and had two stays in intensive care. Both unvaxxed.

"Glenn had his worries and reasons for not having the jabs...but he did say to the nurses before going into an induced coma he wished he had"
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/gentle-giant-told-nurse-i-21096680

 

[chopps]

Surprised we're not seeing more countries doing this. I support this totally. Nice one France.

https://www.france24.com/en/france/...requiring-restaurant-covid-pass-vaccine-rules

 

[Bernie]

Another sad story - 51yo from Grimsby probably caught it down the social club watching the Croatia game on 13 June, died 13 July. Friend in his 20s also got it and had two stays in intensive care. Both unvaxxed.

"Glenn had his worries and reasons for not having the jabs...but he did say to the nurses before going into an induced coma he wished he had"
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/gentle-giant-told-nurse-i-21096680

Overweight and compromised immune system.

 

[chthon]

"Virus" is actually Latin for poison.

So, do anti-vaxxers really think that their freedom includes the freedom to poison other people?

Paracelsus: "The dose makes the poison"

 

[thesteve]

Another sad story - 51yo from Grimsby probably caught it down the social club watching the Croatia game on 13 June, died 13 July.

In fairness, I would probably have died during Euro 2020 as well if Rashford, Sancho and Saka had put away their penalties

 

[Random Badger]

"Virus" is actually Latin for poison.

So, do anti-vaxxers really think that their freedom includes the freedom to poison other people?

Paracelsus: "The dose makes the poison"

Admittedly it's a concept that many don't grasp (essentially everything is poisonous depending on dosage) but how does that relate to anti-vaxxers infecting others?

 

[DavidDetroit]

Just wondering is there many more like this

There's a strange phenomenon I've observed here in the US--the rural dwellers are far more likely not to get vaccinated. They also are very much against any rules that inhibit the spread of COVID.
So, to directly answer the question, there are many more. My immediate family is a great example. One relative lives in a sparsely populated area yet this relative, the spouse, their two adult children, their son-in-law, son-in-law's family, grandchild all got COVID. As far as I know, none have received the vaccine and do not plan on it.
On the other hand, my wife and I, who do live in a heavily populated area, have not contracted the virus. She's fully vaccinated and I'm halfway.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Overweight and compromised immune system.

That may be the case but its not what the article is about he is merely telling people who haven't had it to get it.

Millions of healthy people have died because there was no vaccine its not just the unhealthy this thing kills.

 

[Bernie]

There's a strange phenomenon I've observed here in the US--the rural dwellers are far more likely not to get vaccinated. They also are very much against any rules that inhibit the spread of COVID.
So, to directly answer the question, there are many more. My immediate family is a great example. One relative lives in a sparsely populated area yet this relative, the spouse, their two adult children, their son-in-law, son-in-law's family, grandchild all got COVID. As far as I know, none have received the vaccine and do not plan on it.
On the other hand, my wife and I, who do live in a heavily populated area, have not contracted the virus. She's fully vaccinated and I'm halfway.

The highest death rates have been in the populated area inn the north east, New Jersey, New York Massachusetts,

 

[krispn]

Except ivermectin doesn't work. The meta-analyses that hinted it might, were statistically dominated by one study in Egypt that now looks like it's fraudulent, they were just making data up :
https://www.theguardian.com/science...vid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
Patients dying before the study started, data copy/pasted, events happening on 31 June - it looks dodgy as hell, but it took a Masters student to catch it. Without the data from that study, there's nothing to suggest ivermectin works.

But it does beg the question, why are some news sources pushing ivermectin so hard? Is this propaganda from the drugs companies that make ivermectin, or is coming from governments that just want to see people die by taking treatments that don't work?

I think there was some discussion about this article after its print but I’ll need to go look at the counter arguments raised as well as the paper itself. To say Ivermectin ‘doesn’t work’ based on one study isn’t really that helpful considering the safety record it’s had over 40 years of use. Its use in this study might prove that the study has had issues or it was used at a point where the participants were too ill but I’ll not write it off just yet but happy to consider the outcomes of this study. I don’t get why a medication which has a really good safety record is getting so much heat. It’s been used to great effect in various countries for its primary use and there’s data out there to support that. The WHO recommends it as an essential medication based on its efficacy and safety record but obviously not as a Covid treatment. With the current vaccine issued use under an emergency order a highly regarded medication with 40yrs of research behind might be a good other option. It would be great to see other medications trialled in the treatment and prevention of COVID-19 and I’m not entirely sure why there’s such reluctance to have more than one tool/intervention at our disposal to help fight covid.

 

[DavidDetroit]

The highest death rates have been in the populated area inn the north east, New Jersey, New York Massachusetts,

Frankly, I'm not interested in your comments which clearly display an inability to apply logic or reason to statistics nor in your type's propensity for cherry picking data in an attempt to be right.

 

[MmmBeer]

 

[MickDundee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57984561

 

[krispn]

Except ivermectin doesn't work. The meta-analyses that hinted it might, were statistically dominated by one study in Egypt that now looks like it's fraudulent, they were just making data up :
https://www.theguardian.com/science...vid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
Patients dying before the study started, data copy/pasted, events happening on 31 June - it looks dodgy as hell, but it took a Masters student to catch it. Without the data from that study, there's nothing to suggest ivermectin works.

But it does beg the question, why are some news sources pushing ivermectin so hard? Is this propaganda from the drugs companies that make ivermectin, or is coming from governments that just want to see people die by taking treatments that don't work?

Had a read and that paper looks to be a shambles but for me it creates questions over the author/researchers more so than the treatment.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Two more examples of what happens when you have "no Covid ***" :

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...emouth-solicitor-paid-price-refusing-vaccine/Leslie Lawrenson, 58, was found dead by his 19-year-old stepson at his home address on July 2, the same day his partner Amanda Mitchell was hospitalised with the virus. And now the family are urging everyone to get the vaccine so they don’t experience the same thing.

Stepdaughter Carla Hodges, 35, told the Daily Echo: “He was a really well-educated guy that ended up in the rabbit hole about the vaccine, thinking if he got Covid he would be ok. “I go through emotions feeling sad and frustrated. There’s so much out there, it’s so easy to get wrapped up in conspiracy theories, the anti-vaxxers’ game is strong. He was just convinced natural antibodies could fight this and said the vaccine was not fully approved."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...tbroken-familys-urgent-message-after-21241314The heartbroken family of an anti-vaxxer who died after getting coronavirus have pleaded with other sceptics to put their doubts aside and get the ***.

David Parker, 56, had posted messages on Facebook criticising the vaccine and detailing why he would not get it - including wanting more information on 'long term effects'.

He said if he was "wrong" about the warnings he would "hold his hands up".

 

[531Man]

Two more examples of what happens when you have "no Covid ***" :

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...emouth-solicitor-paid-price-refusing-vaccine/Leslie Lawrenson, 58, was found dead by his 19-year-old stepson at his home address on July 2, the same day his partner Amanda Mitchell was hospitalised with the virus. And now the family are urging everyone to get the vaccine so they don’t experience the same thing.

Stepdaughter Carla Hodges, 35, told the Daily Echo: “He was a really well-educated guy that ended up in the rabbit hole about the vaccine, thinking if he got Covid he would be ok. “I go through emotions feeling sad and frustrated. There’s so much out there, it’s so easy to get wrapped up in conspiracy theories, the anti-vaxxers’ game is strong. He was just convinced natural antibodies could fight this and said the vaccine was not fully approved."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...tbroken-familys-urgent-message-after-21241314The heartbroken family of an anti-vaxxer who died after getting coronavirus have pleaded with other sceptics to put their doubts aside and get the ***.

David Parker, 56, had posted messages on Facebook criticising the vaccine and detailing why he would not get it - including wanting more information on 'long term effects'.

He said if he was "wrong" about the warnings he would "hold his hands up".

Respect to the relatives for their brave advice in such circumstances.
It's all very sad when people are sucked down the rabbit hole of anti-vax conspirator Qanon falsehoods.
Who should you trust?
The insistence of the friend of a friend of someone completely unknown, apart from being a complete false news conspiracy theorist;
Or the combined recommendations of the World's top epidemiologists, scientists and medics?
A tough decision there, that unfortunately Darwin's "Survival of the fittest" theory of evolution will always have the final say on who will survive and who will not.
Stay safely vaccinated, if you can, everyone.

 

[531Man]

Admittedly it's a concept that many don't grasp (essentially everything is poisonous depending on dosage) but how does that relate to anti-vaxxers infecting others?

Hi, sorry for the late contribution, only just seen this.
How I read it:
I think this is highlighting that the unvaccinated are far more likely to contract Covid themselves than the fully vaccinated;
and then also far more likely to pass it on, whilst presymptomatic, to those who are still susceptible in their vicinity.
Hence the sad story recounted by @DavidDetroit of an entire unvaccinated rural extended family that succumbed to Covid, whilst the related couple who live in the city who are vaccinated and have not contracted it.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think this is highlighting that the unvaccinated are far more likely to contract Covid themselves than the fully vaccinated;
and then also far more likely to pass it on,

They are also far more likely to need to go to hospital and put others in danger of catching it.

Members recently discussed whether smokers and heavy drinkers should get help when their addiction finally catches up to them, do anti-vaxxers who choose not to be vaccinated then go on to need hospital treatment deserve it bearing in mind the danger they pose to NHS staff.

The answer is obviously yes but i find their reasoning ridiculous and their refusal to have it selfish.

 

[DavidDetroit]

I've tried a few different approaches in support of getting vaccinated with people who refuse. The crux of the issue is that that type only will really think about themselves and how they are affected and they simply don't like to be told what to do even if it's something that will benefit them.
The attitude is very similar to they type that doesn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet. So many excuses against it when it's a simple safety device. I'm surprised that sort isn't ranting and wailing about seatbelts.

 

[obscure]

I've tried a few different approaches in support of getting vaccinated with people who refuse. The crux of the issue is that that type only will really think about themselves and how they are affected and they simply don't like to be told what to do even if it's something that will benefit them.
The attitude is very similar to they type that doesn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet. So many excuses against it when it's a simple safety device. I'm surprised that sort isn't ranting and wailing about seatbelts.

The thing I find bizarre is even from a purely self interested position the COVID *** makes sense. While it will reduce the chances of catching COVID one of the biggest benefits is on reducing the severity, you can still be double jabbed and catch COVID and pass it onto someone else but it will significantly reduce the risk of you ending up in hospital.

That said I think at least in the UK you have a number of different categories of vaccine holdouts firstly the apathetic typically younger so at lower risk of serious illness for these I think the key is to make it so ridiculously easy to get vaccinated that they just do it. Then the nervous but willing to be persuaded they might be a bit nervous around needles or read one too many web articles put out by anti vaccination groups. Can probably be persuaded by being talked to by someone they trust a GP a friend etc. Then you get the conspiracy nuts the ones who believe that vaccines contain micro chips to track them, or it’s all part of some grand conspiracy (frankly I would find it kind of reassuring if their genuinely was some grand conspiracy behind the mess in government response to COVID at least it would mean their was some kind of plan but I think the phrase “Never Attribute to Malice That Which Is Adequately Explained by Stupidity” is a more likely answer). This group you probably are never going to persuade the key is stopping their views infecting the apathetic and the nervous.