No chill brew and hop additions

[davidgrace]

I am thinking about moving to no chill brewing using a “cube”, but I am confused over hop adjustments for this method. I watched a couple of video’s on this process and they talk of leaving the later hop additions in for the whole cooling process. Why is this? I use a hop spider does that mean I won’t put the later hop additions into the spider and what about hopstand additions?

 

[The Baron]

You will have inconsistent results leaving the hops in the cube. I do No Chill virtually all the time and I do a whirlpool with the hops in a spider for the allotted time so that they can be removed before adding to the cube. Make sure you clean and sanitise the cube as the wort will be going in at a lower temperature than so old style cube chill methods.
I generally do my whirlpool @ 80c or slightly lower so that I can add loads of hops without getting a massive IBU hit so generally I will be transferring @ 60C to my FV(I do not use a Cube).
If you have a AIO system that has a pump you can aim it at the spider to help to agitate the hops and give some flow over them just do not aim it in the spider as it will back up and the hops will overflow so just aim it at the top outside of the spider

 

[foxy]

I am thinking about moving to no chill brewing using a “cube”, but I am confused over hop adjustments for this method. I watched a couple of video’s on this process and they talk of leaving the later hop additions in for the whole cooling process. Why is this? I use a hop spider does that mean I won’t put the later hop additions into the spider and what about hopstand additions?

Rule of thumb, and realise there is no science to back this up is add 20 minutes to the boil time to work out the IBU. (that doesn't mean to boil for 80 mins)
For instance if you put your bittering hops in at 60 minutes and come up with 30 IBU if you worked out what the bitterness will be at 80 minutes, just say 40 IBU then scale back the hop addition for example if it was 15 g @ 60 mins for 30 IBU then it may be 10 g @ 80 mins for 30 IBU.
Late hop additions can be put into the cube, they will settle out.
Another method which will give more accuracy is the Argon Method.
Late Hopping And No Chilling Guide

 

[davidgrace]

You will have inconsistent results leaving the hops in the cube. I do No Chill virtually all the time and I do a whirlpool with the hops in a spider for the allotted time so that they can be removed before adding to the cube. Make sure you clean and sanitise the cube as the wort will be going in at a lower temperature than so old style cube chill methods.
I generally do my whirlpool @ 80c or slightly lower so that I can add loads of hops without getting a massive IBU hit so generally I will be transferring @ 60C to my FV(I do not use a Cube).
If you have a AIO system that has a pump you can aim it at the spider to help to agitate the hops and give some flow over them just do not aim it in the spider as it will back up and the hops will overflow so just aim it at the top outside of the spider

Thanks for your response. I appreciate you taking the time. I need to clarify some of the things you have written.

1. You put the whirlpool hops in the spider for the allotted time so they can be removed before adding to the cube. But, at the start you wrote, “You will have inconsistent results leaving the hops in the cube.” So which hops are these that go into the cube? The hops that go in late during the boil such as 15 minute, 10 minute or 5 minute? If these go into the cube does that mean I only use the spider for whirlpool hops?

1. You write, “I will be transferring @ 60C to my FV(I do not use a Cube).” Are you saying the wort can remain in the fermentation vessel to cool naturally without any harm coming to the brew? I thought that the cube had to be sealed with a good lid and all the air squeezed out to avoid damage the brew. Do you have just the ordinary FV or one that has a special airtight seal?

Sorry for these questions, but this is new for me and I am a little confused over what I’ve heard in videos on the subject of no chill.

 

[The Baron]

What I am saying is that you do a whirlpool and remove the hops so no hops go in the Cube/FV.
Regards the Fv being used instead of the cube it is my personal method that I do and in reality is riskier than putting boiling hot wort into a cube but with a good process, cleaning and sanitising method it is a marginal risk I think is worth taking as it is a better process especially if you are whirlpooling as you can calculate the IBU's more accurately than leaving them in the cube.
It is your choice but I have done it for years without any problems but your clean/sanitisation method must be robust

 

[davidgrace]

What I am saying is that you do a whirlpool and remove the hops so no hops go in the Cube/FV.
Regards the Fv being used instead of the cube it is my personal method that I do and in reality is riskier than putting boiling hot wort into a cube but with a good process, cleaning and sanitising method it is a marginal risk I think is worth taking as it is a better process especially if you are whirlpooling as you can calculate the IBU's more accurately than leaving them in the cube.
It is your choice but I have done it for years without any problems but your clean/sanitisation method must be robust

Thanks. The water where I live does not have a high enough ph to use something like Starsan, so I use Sodium Percarbonate. I've never had any problems with it, but I might be taking too big a risk to use the FV for cooling rather than a cube,

 

[davidgrace]

What I am saying is that you do a whirlpool and remove the hops so no hops go in the Cube/FV.
Regards the Fv being used instead of the cube it is my personal method that I do and in reality is riskier than putting boiling hot wort into a cube but with a good process, cleaning and sanitising method it is a marginal risk I think is worth taking as it is a better process especially if you are whirlpooling as you can calculate the IBU's more accurately than leaving them in the cube.
It is your choice but I have done it for years without any problems but your clean/sanitisation method must be robust

I recently posted about no chill brewing and hop additions and found your comments very helpful. However, for absolute clarity, it may be helpful if I outline a proposed process and then ask a question.

1. I add 60-minute hops to the hop spider for bittering according to the recipe.
2. I add later hops to the hop spider at 15 or 10 or 5 minutes from the end of the boil as the recipe stipulates.
3. I remove the hop spider containing the added hops at flame out
4. I add hop stand hops to a bag at 80C removing these hops after 20 minutes.
5. I transfer the wort to my fermenting bucket and leave it to cool naturally to yeast pitching temperature.

If I follow that process, do I have to make any alterations to the timings of my hop additions?

 

[The Baron]

Sounds to me as you are doing a standard brew method of 60 min bittering hops plus later aroma/flavour additions plus a whirlpool/Hopstand.
There is no problem doing this as long as you appreciate that the Whirlpool/Hopstand will add further bittering to the beer. Now some calculators do not allow or predict this so you can end up with a beer with more bitter than you wanted or expected.
This fine as long as you have allowed for the IBU contribution in the Whirlpool/Hopstand.
I personally do not use bittering hops anymore and get my bittering from the hop additions in a Whirlpool/Hopstand so this will or can give you the option of cramming in hops for flavour and reaching your IBU's with the Whirlpool/Hopstand only.
If you do want to mix and match the methods with hops in the normal boil you will need to remove them at flameout prior to the Whirlpool/Hopstand addition or once again you will get further IBU's unless you factor this into the recipe

 

[davidgrace]

Sounds to me as you are doing a standard brew method of 60 min bittering hops plus later aroma/flavour additions plus a whirlpool/Hopstand.
There is no problem doing this as long as you appreciate that the Whirlpool/Hopstand will add further bittering to the beer. Now some calculators do not allow or predict this so you can end up with a beer with more bitter than you wanted or expected.
This fine as long as you have allowed for the IBU contribution in the Whirlpool/Hopstand.
I personally do not use bittering hops anymore and get my bittering from the hop additions in a Whirlpool/Hopstand so this will or can give you the option of cramming in hops for flavour and reaching your IBU's with the Whirlpool/Hopstand only.
If you do want to mix and match the methods with hops in the normal boil you will need to remove them at flameout prior to the Whirlpool/Hopstand addition or once again you will get further IBU's unless you factor this into the recipe

Thanks for your helpful reply. The process I’ve outlined is what I usually do, but I use a chiller to bring down to fermentation temperature. I have never found the beer too bitter, so, my question now is why would no chill increase the IBU making the beer too bitter? Or would it be just the same as chilling?

 

[The Baron]

In the no chill method with cubes some brewers leave the hops in i.e They have not used a bag or hop spider and the hops get transferred into the cube while it cools overnight.
This obviously will leave the hops in from flameout temps down to cooling temps and the hops are in contact for longer. It is just like doing a hopstand for longer than a controlled method so the IBU's can creep up.
If you remove the hops then there are not any further hop contact its entirely up to you
which method you use but removal will give you more control of the bitterness.
Regards the beer not being bitter than normal with your method of bittering hops plus Whirlpool/Hopstand it is down to 2 things if you are using a recipe builder that takes Whirlpool/Hopstand IBU contribution in it then it will be calculated in the recipe builder and you will therefore have the IBU's that you wanted in the recipe. If you use a recipe builder that does not add IBU's for Whirlpool/Hopstands (some say no IBU's are created in Whirlpool/Hopstand)then that is when the beer can be more bitter than you expected, however a uplift in IBU's is not always as noticeable to everyone as some people are more susceptible to bittering taste than others

 

[davidgrace]

In the no chill method with cubes some brewers leave the hops in i.e They have not used a bag or hop spider and the hops get transferred into the cube while it cools overnight.
This obviously will leave the hops in from flameout temps down to cooling temps and the hops are in contact for longer. It is just like doing a hopstand for longer than a controlled method so the IBU's can creep up.
If you remove the hops then there are not any further hop contact its entirely up to you
which method you use but removal will give you more control of the bitterness.
Regards the beer not being bitter than normal with your method of bittering hops plus Whirlpool/Hopstand it is down to 2 things if you are using a recipe builder that takes Whirlpool/Hopstand IBU contribution in it then it will be calculated in the recipe builder and you will therefore have the IBU's that you wanted in the recipe. If you use a recipe builder that does not add IBU's for Whirlpool/Hopstands (some say no IBU's are created in Whirlpool/Hopstand)then that is when the beer can be more bitter than you expected, however a uplift in IBU's is not always as noticeable to everyone as some people are more susceptible to bittering taste than others

Many thanks for your replies. I think I am now confident to move forward with no chill in my FV