Newbie questions on fermenting

[WelshPaul]

Hi all,
after my first ever foray into brewing I am going to be attempting a larger batch in the next couple of weeks. I do have just a couple of questions to make sure that I get consistant results:

- Secondary fermentation. I was planning on fermenting in the bottles; can this be done with crown caps or would I need to get more of the swing top bottles that I used for my initial batch?

- Carbonation/priming sugar - when is the best time to add this whether fermenting in bottles or in a keg?

- Filtering beer: other than finings, what other methods can I use to remove any particles? I'm not too fussed on cloudy beer, I just want a nice sediment-free result.

Thank in advance folks!

 

[battwave]

Personally I've never found the need for finings or filtering when using bottles; time is cheaper when it comes to clearing. I personally think that there is a window of perfection with a live bottled ale; it sits between the time of clearing-out, and the time when the yeast eventually attacks the long chain sugars and the ale becomes drier than you would want it to be.

If you can't do a secondary per-se, make sure you've hit SG around 1010ish or fermentation has slowed and beer is starting to clear before you bottle. If it's got to this stage, a quarter of a teaspoon full of sugar per pint bottle of ale is conservative, but at least shouldn't leave you with ballistic missiles.

That's my two penneth worth

 

[Kev888]

Hi,

Priming the bottles properly will inevitably cause a little sediment, but then even commercial bottle-conditioned beer always has some - besides its good for vitamin B :-) . You can minimise this by reducing whats carried over from primary fermentation - leaving it a few days after fermentation to settle, and if you have the facilities cooling it to speed that up. Some people like to use finings too, but i find a few days and cool temperatures work well enough for me so i can't really advise on those.

You add the sugar when bottling, any sooner and gas produced will escape rather than causing carbonation. But you can either add it to each bottle separately or rack to a (well sanitised) intermediary vessel to mix in the priming sugar in bulk - I found the latter more consistent (and easier) but either way try to avoid too much splashing that could oxidise the beer more than necessary. The crown caps are fine - maybe a bit more time consuming to cap but maybe also a bit easier to sanitise; they work equally well once on.

Cheers
kev

 

[philip5660]

Crown caps as far as I know should be fine, personally I use swing tops- nice but expensive.

Look up batch priming, it's as easy way to add the priming sugar in one go - this is my personal preference.

regarding clearing - as mentioned above time will do the job - If you have the facilities i.e. a brew fridge then look in to crash cooling - again this is how I do it.

 

[WelshPaul]

Thanks for the advice folks, I'll give it a try.

No brewing fridge to speak of so we're just going to have to use under the stairs where it's cool and dark.
So in terms of bottling, could I do the secondary fermentation in demijohns and then, when the SG is down to the correct level, add the priming sugar to the batch and then syphon into bottles?

 

[Kev888]

Yes that could work, although you may still want to mix in an intermediary vessel rather than the DJs, so that stirring in the priming sugar doesn't also stir up any yeast that settled during the secondary phase.

You don't actually 'need' to rack to a secondary fermentor (the DJs) if its not convenient though, unless its going to be in there for many weeks modern brewing yeast is unlikely to cause autolysis so you can just leave it in the primary fermenter if its a reasonably well sealed one. Some people do and some people don't, and opinions (as always) vary on whats best, so i'd say just do whatever suits you personally - it can still help to rack it off the yeast cake if you need to move it around for example, but its another thing to ensure is properly sanitised and another transfer step in which to avoid oxidising it.

Cheers
kev

 

[WelshPaul]

OK, cool, that's good to know, thanks.

So would this work then?
- Boil up 4kg of malt (mostly Maris Otter with some Munich) in a muslin grain bag with 1kg sugar for 30 mins.
- Remove grains, add hops and boil for further 15 mins.
- Cool to room temperature, strain into FV and add yeast.
- Primary ferment for several days (this is the part where I get stuck).
- Add priming sugar solution and then secondary ferment in either bottles or another FV (told you I'd get stuck!)
- Bottle results.

The main question I now have is how do you judge when primary fermentation is over and secondary can begin?

 

[pjbiker]

OK, cool, that's good to know, thanks.

So would this work then?
- Boil up 4kg of malt (mostly Maris Otter with some Munich) in a muslin grain bag with 1kg sugar for 30 mins.
- Remove grains, add hops and boil for further 15 mins.
- Cool to room temperature, strain into FV and add yeast.
- Primary ferment for several days (this is the part where I get stuck).
- Add priming sugar solution and then secondary ferment in either bottles or another FV (told you I'd get stuck!)
- Bottle results.

The main question I now have is how do you judge when primary fermentation is over and secondary can begin?

No. You don't boil grain. You make a porridge 1kg: ~2.5L (mash) at a specific temperature (typically 62-67deg) and maintain it for 90mins to convert starch to sugar before draining the resulting 'wort' into a boiler, washing further sugar out of the grain and collecting in the boiler. The next stage is boiling with the hops, typically for 75mins. You need to do some searching on the 'how to' all grain section to get the picture (literally). Another option is to use 'Malt Extract' where the first stage has been done for you. Look up 'Extract brewing'.

 

[TheMumbler]

(snip)So would this work then?
- Boil up 4kg of malt (mostly Maris Otter with some Munich) in a muslin grain bag with 1kg sugar for 30 mins.
(snip)

That sounds like brew in a bag, which I have no experience of but there is information out there.
http://www.biabrewer.info/

Essentially, as I understand it, you are doing the mashing in the vessel that you use to boil. The bit with soaking the grains (mashing) is to allow the enzymes in the malted barley to break down starch into sugars that yeast can turn into alcohol. Since high temparatures are bad for enzymes it is really important to not boil it at this point. Mashing at different temperatures will have an effect on your beer but there is a fairly small band which is good for a single infusion mash. I think that 90 mins at 65*C is a good place to start if you don't want to get into the details yet. You only boil once the liquid and the grain are separated.

There is a good guide to AG on a 3 vessel system here. I recommend that you have a read of that. I would also consider doing a kit if this is your first go as I found it helped me get a bit more relaxed with cleaning and fermentation and bottling.

The main question I now have is how do you judge when primary fermentation is over and secondary can begin?

Transfer to secondary vessel isn't a necessary step and there are arguments against doing it at all. Normally you can transfer your beer from the Fermentation Vessel (FV) to a keg or bottles when you have had a stable hydrometer reading (including adjustment for temperature) for 3 days on the trot. This tells you that the yeast has converted all (or near enough all) of the available sugar in the wort to alcohol.

Then you can bottle or keg with a small amount of priming sugar, how much varies a bit depending on how fizzy you want it (about 0.5 tsp cane sugar per 500ml bottle from memory). The yeast will ferment the priming sugar producing CO2 (and alcohol), this is which gives your bottled beer a bit of fizz since it can't escape out of the capped bottle (or keg). Be careful not to add too much priming sugar as that can result in your bottles going bang, so double check the amount of sugar to add.

You then need to give the yeast a bit of time to use the priming sugar. I generally leave my bottles in the warm for around a week and then transfer into the cellar where the low temperatures tend to make the yeast less active and it drops to the bottom of the bottle forming sediment. Because you are relying on the yeast in suspension in your beer to give carbonation you will have to live with a bit of sediment but it really isn't a big problem in my experience.

Hope that helps and good luck