New starter to lager brewing

[Craig57]

Good afternoon everyone. I am currently looking at starting/learning how to make a nice lager. I have started wine making a few kits ago and now decided to have a crack at making lager as the wine seems to be going ok so far with the odd niggle here and there.
I need some guidance on what equipment i'll be needing and how to store it etc. Had in my head i'd only need a pressure barrel as i already have a fermenting bucket etc, but having spoke to a few guys who've done this before say different things and ideas. One said you can ferment in your bucket, transfer to the pressure barrel and drink straight from there as storing it in plastic bottles is rubbish. The other says who you going to chill it (something i never thought of).
So as a total clueless person on this is there anyone who can suggest a list of needed equipment to produce and store lager correctly, obviously the kits needed are a personal preference to your taste but its the equipment and pitfalls im really looking for?
Many thanks in advance as ALL advice is gratefully appreciated.

Craig

 

[Banbeer]

Hi Craig, there are a couple of ways to make a decent lager and I need to know what camp you fall in before advising on equipment.
1. Are you going to do a traditional lager at lagering temps? (more equipment)
2. Or are you going to attempt a pseudo lager that is brewed at ale temps?

 

[terrym]

In general terms 'proper' lagers are brewed at about 12-13*C with a bottom fermenting lager yeast. After the primary fermentation is complete they are then bulk conditioned or lagered below about 5*C for some time then bottled.
At the homebrew level you can ferment at low temperature using a lager yeast but you probably need a temperature controlled brew fridge in which to do it, or at least a steady temperature in a cool room in winter. For the lagering stage homebrewers either do it in bulk, or in bottle after priming. Again to do it properly you need a fridge.
Most kits come with an ale yeast to allow the homebrewer to ferment at ale temperatures of about 19-20*C. However some ale yeasts can be used to produce a 'pseudo lager' by brewing at the bottom end of their range say down to 16*C which should give a 'clean' taste. Other yeasts like Kolsch can also be used.
But lager beer kits are the poor relation of beer kits in my view so creating a decent lager from a kit is always going to be a struggle.
Next as far as using a pressure barrel is concerned that is not the best way to store or serve the beer. Lagers need a high carbonation level to suit the style and pressure barrels are not designed to do that. So use bottles which also means you can keep a few chilled in the fridge. And PET bottles are fine. I use them. The biggest criticism seems to be whether they look nice or not compared to glass. Otherwise there is not a lot of difference. Although some may diagree on that
Finally if you want a recommendation, and are brewing from kits I suggest you try a Coopers Euro lager which comes with a lager yeast, and brew to 21 litres at about 16/18*C which may mean leaving it a while for the colder weather if you have no temperature control. Use 500g dextrose and 500g light or extra light DME/spray malt. Then after the primary is done and the beer primed with about 7g per litre of table sugar and carbed up in a warm place (say 20*), find the coldest place you have and leave it alone for 10-12 weeks to condition. That's probably the simplest and easiest way of producing anything that resembles a lager using a kit. But don't try to cut corners and don't buy a 1.5kg cheapo lager kit.

 

[Craig57]

Hi Craig, there are a couple of ways to make a decent lager and I need to know what camp you fall in before advising on equipment.
1. Are you going to do a traditional lager at lagering temps? (more equipment)
2. Or are you going to attempt a pseudo lager that is brewed at ale temps?

In general terms 'proper' lagers are brewed at about 12-13*C with a bottom fermenting lager yeast. After the primary fermentation is complete they are then bulk conditioned or lagered below about 5*C for some time then bottled.
At the homebrew level you can ferment at low temperature using a lager yeast but you probably need a temperature controlled brew fridge in which to do it, or at least a steady temperature in a cool room in winter. For the lagering stage homebrewers either do it in bulk, or in bottle after priming. Again to do it properly you need a fridge.
Most kits come with an ale yeast to allow the homebrewer to ferment at ale temperatures of about 19-20*C. However some ale yeasts can be used to produce a 'pseudo lager' by brewing at the bottom end of their range say down to 16*C which should give a 'clean' taste. Other yeasts like Kolsch can also be used.
But lager beer kits are the poor relation of beer kits in my view so creating a decent lager from a kit is always going to be a struggle.
Next as far as using a pressure barrel is concerned that is not the best way to store or serve the beer. Lagers need a high carbonation level to suit the style and pressure barrels are not designed to do that. So use bottles which also means you can keep a few chilled in the fridge. And PET bottles are fine. I use them. The biggest criticism seems to be whether they look nice or not compared to glass. Otherwise there is not a lot of difference. Although some may diagree on that
Finally if you want a recommendation, and are brewing from kits I suggest you try a Coopers Euro lager which comes with a lager yeast, and brew to 21 litres at about 16/18*C which may mean leaving it a while for the colder weather if you have no temperature control. Use 500g dextrose and 500g light or extra light DME/spray malt. Then after the primary is done and the beer primed with about 7g per litre of table sugar and carbed up in a warm place (say 20*), find the coldest place you have and leave it alone for 10-12 weeks to condition. That's probably the simplest and easiest way of producing anything that resembles a lager using a kit. But don't try to cut corners and don't buy a 1.5kg cheapo lager kit.

Thanks for your response, much appreciated, i can see i need to do a lot more research now as some of that made sense and other aspects i was totally lost to be honest. So the pressure barrel is a no go then and what is a PET bottle (or am i being totally numb here).
When you say dont buy a cheapo lager kit im assuming the coopers at £13 isnt classed as cheap?
Lots to learn here and thanks for the help, much appreciated

Hi Craig, there are a couple of ways to make a decent lager and I need to know what camp you fall in before advising on equipment.
1. Are you going to do a traditional lager at lagering temps? (more equipment)
2. Or are you going to attempt a pseudo lager that is brewed at ale temps?

Never heard of either of those so im really not too sure, this proves i have lots to learn eh.

 

[Banbeer]

Never heard of either of those so im really not too sure, this proves i have lots to learn eh.

HaHa, they're not types, they're ways of making it but Terrym has covered this in his reply

 

[Craig57]

HaHa, they're not types, they're ways of making it but Terrym has covered this in his reply

Yeah he's sent a comprehensive response, somewhat confusing to a newby in some areas but a base to look at. Thanks

 

[Banbeer]

a PET bottle

A PET bottle is a plastic bottle that can hold fiz, you can buy supermarket sparkling water and drink the contents or not and use them to put your beer in, 500ml are most common and easiest but you could use 1 or 2 litre.

 

[Craig57]

A PET bottle is a plastic bottle that can hold fiz, you can buy supermarket sparkling water and drink the contents or not and use them to put your beer in, 500ml are most common and easiest but you could use 1 or 2 litre.

Just like a 2ltr coke bottle then i take it?

 

[An Ankoù]

Hello Craig. When you drink commercial lager, what are your favourites?
As has been said above, proper lager is made with a bottom fermenting lager yeast fermenting at a cool temperature. This gives the crisp edge that you get to a Pilsner. You can use some lager yeasts- Fermentis Saflager W-34/70, for example, at what we call "ale temperatures" of 16-20ish C (and this yeast will ferment nicely a bit higher, too), but it won't taste like a cold-fermented beer, even using the same ingredients. This is because, at higher temperatures, the yeast produces more esters, which for our purposes means a more "beery" flavour. If you are happy to use Pilsner malt or a low colour Pale Ale malt, with German noble hops to produce a very pale Pale Ale, which you'll drink cold or even chilled then, yes, you can make this drink in the warm weather without a fridge. And a very nice drink it is too! It's just not lager.
As for pressure barrels: if you mean a metal cask that'll take a high pressure then yes. Otherwise bottle it. We tend to expect lagers to be more highly carbonated than ales and I'm not sure you could maintain the pressure easily in a plastic barrel.

 

[Banbeer]

Just like a 2ltr coke bottle then i take it?

Correct, anything that's had fizz in.

 

[terrym]

When you say dont buy a cheapo lager kit im assuming the coopers at £13 isnt classed as cheap?

I suggested you avoid a cheapo 1.5kg kit, say a Geordie lager kit. In my view they haven't got enough malt. At 1.7kg Coopers kits have just about the minimum amount of liquid malt to make a go if it as far as kits are concerned, especially if you brew short i.e. brew less than the recommended volume, which is what I suggested at 21 litres.
And whilst you stand a much better chance of brewing a decent lager by using grain (all grain or AG), specialist yeasts, low temperature fermentation and lagering, as someone new to all this already struggling with some of the jargon, I suggest you stay with the Euro lager for the time being, simple and easy, which I and many others on here have done, and get your technique right first and also hopefully produce something that is more than just drinkable as a first attempt.
You might also find this useful
Basic beginners guide to brewing your own beer from a kit - The HomeBrew Forum

 

[Craig57]

Hello Craig. When you drink commercial lager, what are your favourites?
As has been said above, proper lager is made with a bottom fermenting lager yeast fermenting at a cool temperature. This gives the crisp edge that you get to a Pilsner. You can use some lager yeasts- Fermentis Saflager W-34/70, for example, at what we call "ale temperatures" of 16-20ish C (and this yeast will ferment nicely a bit higher, too), but it won't taste like a cold-fermented beer, even using the same ingredients. This is because, at higher temperatures, the yeast produces more esters, which for our purposes means a more "beery" flavour. If you are happy to use Pilsner malt or a low colour Pale Ale malt, with German noble hops to produce a very pale Pale Ale, which you'll drink cold or even chilled then, yes, you can make this drink in the warm weather without a fridge. And a very nice drink it is too! It's just not lager.
As for pressure barrels: if you mean a metal cask that'll take a high pressure then yes. Otherwise bottle it. We tend to expect lagers to be more highly carbonated than ales and I'm not sure you could maintain the pressure easily in a plastic barrel.

If i drink lager I tend to go for a moretti type lager or worsteiner (if that's how you spell it). Anything then it's stronger then the kids lager, Foster, carling etc. Hope this helps?
Thanks.

 

[An Ankoù]

If i drink lager I tend to go for a moretti type lager or worsteiner (if that's how you spell it). Anything then it's stronger then the kids lager, Foster, carling etc. Hope this helps?
Thanks.

Warsteiner's one of my favourites. It's crisp and slightly sulphury (not uncommon in good lagers). Moretti, too, is sound and I bet you don't mind a pint of Pilsner Urquell. It sounds like you like the proper stuff. I make mine for the year when it's cold in winter and bottle it. I'd still recommend trying to make a light ale version, though, to tide you over. When it comes to the day, I'd suggest using a good Pilsner malt, or even Bohemian, certainly a Czech Pilsner yeast, and loads of Saaz hops.
Hope that helps.

 

[Galena]

Correct, anything that's had fizz in.

Pretty much yes, but because of the way homebrew carbonates in the bottle, you are always left with a sediment on the bottom of the bottle. this means that you should pour it straight to glass in one move, if you don't it will stir up and mix with your drink which most people don't want. That is why 500ml bottles are popular as it just about fills a pint glass, if you were to use larger bottles then you should consider a jug big enough to pour in one.

 

[Craig57]

Warsteiner's one of my favourites. It's crisp and slightly sulphury (not uncommon in good lagers). Moretti, too, is sound and I bet you don't mind a pint of Pilsner Urquell. It sounds like you like the proper stuff. I make mine for the year when it's cold in winter and bottle it. I'd still recommend trying to make a light ale version, though, to tide you over. When it comes to the day, I'd suggest using a good Pilsner malt, or even Bohemian, certainly a Czech Pilsner yeast, and loads of Saaz hops.
Hope that helps.

Ha ha it was going well until you mentioned a pilsner malt, bohemian, Czech yeast etc. That went straight over my head. I'm sure once I've done more research on how and what I'll know more about the contents of these posts. As it stands I'm a little blurred as I'm not even in the 1st rung of the ladder yet.

 

[An Ankoù]

Ha ha it was going well until you mentioned a pilsner malt, bohemian, Czech yeast etc. That went straight over my head. I'm sure once I've done more research on how and what I'll know more about the contents of these posts. As it stands I'm a little blurred as I'm not even in the 1st rung of the ladder yet.

My fault, sorry. Looking back at the original post, I see you were looking for a kit. I was thinking All Grain in my wild enthusiasm. Listen to terrym, he knows what he's talking about.

 

[terrym]

Listen to terrym, he knows what he's talking about.

On occasion

 

[yrhendystu]

I make the 'lager style' kits in a bucket then bottle in 2L plastic bottles. Tesco value lemonade is 17p (it tastes nasty so goes straight down the drain). I usually use about 14 bottles per 23L kit as I'll fill to around 1.6L and squeeze out any excess air.

I'll add around a tablespoon of sugar per bottle. This gives it a small secondary fermentation which makes it fizzy.

I store in a dark shed away from UV light and move to the fridge a day or so before drinking.

 

[Craig57]

I make the 'lager style' kits in a bucket then bottle in 2L plastic bottles. Tesco value lemonade is 17p (it tastes nasty so goes straight down the drain). I usually use about 14 bottles per 23L kit as I'll fill to around 1.6L and squeeze out any excess air.

I'll add around a tablespoon of sugar per bottle. This gives it a small secondary fermentation which makes it fizzy.

I store in a dark shed away from UV light and move to the fridge a day or so before drinking.

Is the lager style kit ones like the Cooper or Czech pilsner etc. 13 pounds per kit or do I need a more expensive one?
Thanks

 

[Turt01]

Nothing wrong with that as a starter