Neck Oil Clone

[Brewelder]

Hi All,

I’ve just received a Neck Oil Clone kit from Keg That today and plan to brew it over the weekend, however not having much experience in “All Grain” brewing i have a question for the more experienced guys on here.

Batch Volume is 21 ltrs, Boil Volume is 28.5 ltrs, but the starting Mash volume is 2.2ltrs per KG = 8.8ltrs, is that correct? And if so, how do i get to the boil volume of 28.5 ltrs? I’m using BIAB by the way.
Recipe is below for reference.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Neck Oil Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 28.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.033
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.045
Final Gravity: 1.009
ABV (standard): 4.71%
IBU (tinseth): 35.54
SRM (morey): 7.88
Mash pH:

FERMENTABLES:
3.5 kg - Maris Otter Pale (87.5%)
0.25 kg - Cristal 240 (6.3%)
0.25 kg - Carapils (6.3%)

HOPS:
16 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.52
5 g - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 7.4, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 3.64
2 g - Columbus, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 2.95
19 g - Centennial, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10.3, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 12.43
100 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
50 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.4, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 68 C
Starting Mash Thickness: 2.2 L/kg

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 12.22 - 25 C

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and malty
Ca2: 60
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 95
SO4: 55
HCO3: 0
Water Notes

 

[Stu's Brews]

Hi All,

I’ve just received a Neck Oil Clone kit from Keg That today and plan to brew it over the weekend, however not having much experience in “All Grain” brewing i have a question for the more experienced guys on here.

Batch Volume is 21 ltrs, Boil Volume is 28.5 ltrs, but the starting Mash volume is 2.2ltrs per KG = 8.8ltrs, is that correct? And if so, how do i get to the boil volume of 28.5 ltrs? I’m using BIAB by the way.
Recipe is below for reference.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Neck Oil Clone

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 28.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.033
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.045
Final Gravity: 1.009
ABV (standard): 4.71%
IBU (tinseth): 35.54
SRM (morey): 7.88
Mash pH:

FERMENTABLES:
3.5 kg - Maris Otter Pale (87.5%)
0.25 kg - Cristal 240 (6.3%)
0.25 kg - Carapils (6.3%)

HOPS:
16 g - Amarillo, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.52
5 g - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 7.4, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 3.64
2 g - Columbus, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 2.95
19 g - Centennial, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 10.3, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 12.43
100 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
50 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.4, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 68 C
Starting Mash Thickness: 2.2 L/kg

YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 12.22 - 25 C

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and malty
Ca2: 60
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 95
SO4: 55
HCO3: 0
Water Notes

The remaining ~20L is what you need to add when sparging.

2.2L/kg seems like quite a thick mash though - I usually have something more like 3L/kg when I brew. That would give you 12L to add for the mash and further 18.5L when sparging.

 

[Brewelder]

The remaining ~20L is what you need to add when sparging.

2.2L/kg seems like quite a thick mash though - I usually have something more like 3L/kg when I brew. That would give you 12L to add for the mash and further 18.5L when sparging.

Thanks Stu, i sort of guessed that would be the case but wanted to clarify.

Would you remove the brew bag with grains and sparge into a seperate container? Or sparge directly into the mash kettle?

 

[LeeH]

In on this, I love neck oil.

 

[Brewelder]

In on this, I love neck oil.

Yeah me as well Lee, love the stuff, hence the kit and i just hope it turns out half as good as the real stuff.

 

[Nottsbeer]

I notice that the recipe is based on a 75% efficiency. I do BIAB (full volume water, no sparge) and generally have an efficiency around 70%. As this is your first go at AG you won't know your efficiency, but you could end up not quite hitting your numbers. Just something to be aware of. Good luck

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Don’t sweat it. You really don’t need to worry. Many folk do full-volume mashes and don’t sparge at all. Most of mine are 20 litres or a little more for what will be a 20 litre batch (typically 22 mash, 8 sparge).

 

[Stu's Brews]

Thanks Stu, i sort of guessed that would be the case but wanted to clarify.

Would you remove the brew bag with grains and sparge into a seperate container? Or sparge directly into the mash kettle?

I'm not sure what setup you have but I use a Grainfather all-in-one so I sparge directly into the mash kettle.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Thanks Stu, i sort of guessed that would be the case but wanted to clarify.

Would you remove the brew bag with grains and sparge into a seperate container? Or sparge directly into the mash kettle?

You noted you BIAB so I would normally expect that you pull the bag of grain from your mash vessel and drop it into a separate vessel containing your warm sparge water (this is called a batch sparge). Give it a good dunk or 10 to rinse out the sugar and then add that water back to the wort from your mash. You’re then on to the boil…

 

[Brewelder]

You noted you BIAB so I would normally expect that you pull the bag of grain from your mash vessel and drop it into a separate vessel containing your warm sparge water (this is called a batch sparge). Give it a good dunk or 10 to rinse out the sugar and then add that water back to the wort from your mash. You’re then on to the boil…

Thanks for that, shouldn’t be a problem as i have a spare fermentation bin that’s just used to sterilise my equipment so could use that to sparge with.

I can’t really go for a full mash as my kettle only takes just over 30 ltrs so would probably be rather full when i added the grain so will play it safe and follow Stu’s advice and go for a partial mash then sparge to make up the boil volume. Fingers crossed it all works out.

 

[Brewelder]

I'm not sure what setup you have but I use a Grainfather all-in-one so I sparge directly into the mash kettle.

I have a Klarstein 30ltr mash kettle/boiler, no sparge arm so will have to do it manually.

I was looking to add a recirculation pump to the kettle, but just haven’t got round to it yet.

 

[AnimatedGIF]

@Brewelder - will you let us know when you've tasted the finished product? I may give this kit a go myself if it turns out well.
I hope the brew goes well at the weekend

 

[Brewelder]

@Brewelder - will you let us know when you've tasted the finished product? I may give this kit a go myself if it turns out well.
I hope the brew goes well at the weekend

Definitely will do, will probably start this saturday.

 

[Brewelder]

I notice that the recipe is based on a 75% efficiency. I do BIAB (full volume water, no sparge) and generally have an efficiency around 70%. As this is your first go at AG you won't know your efficiency, but you could end up not quite hitting your numbers. Just something to be aware of. Good luck

Understood and taken onboard, however what is the best way to improve the efficiency? A longer mash time? As i said at the top, i’m new to “All Grain” although this is my second attempt. The first being a NEIPA which is currently conditioning in the Corny Keg so not sure how that has turned out yet, although a sneaky tasting after taking the FG seemed to be a bit bitter and i’m hoping that after a couple to three weeks in the keg will improve the quality of taste.

And as i also said, any help is greatly appreciated from you more experience guys on here.

 

[Brewnaldo]

Understood and taken onboard, however what is the best way to improve the efficiency? A longer mash time? As i said at the top, i’m new to “All Grain” although this is my second attempt. The first being a NEIPA which is currently conditioning in the Corny Keg so not sure how that has turned out yet, although a sneaky tasting after taking the FG seemed to be a bit bitter and i’m hoping that after a couple to three weeks in the keg will improve the quality of taste.

And as i also said, any help is greatly appreciated from you more experience guys on here.

For BIAB.... Finer crush (maybe out of your hands), be attentive to the mash, stir it regularly and dont let the temp wander off up or down, you could also try Hazelwoods sparge technique (sort of, he uses a apump, I did it with jugs) where you remove 1 litre of mash to a container, replace with 1 litre of sparge water, stir for a while etc then repeat unti you have used up your sparge water. This did give me a bump in efficency when I did it but im usually pressed for time and jsut do a dunk sparge.

Lastly, and again out of your hands for this recipe but once you have abetter idea of how your kit works, just add a wee bit more grain to the recipe.

 

[Brewelder]

For BIAB.... Finer crush (maybe out of your hands), be attentive to the mash, stir it regularly and dont let the temp wander off up or down, you could also try Hazelwoods sparge technique (sort of, he uses a apump, I did it with jugs) where you remove 1 litre of mash to a container, replace with 1 litre of sparge water, stir for a while etc then repeat unti you have used up your sparge water. This did give me a bump in efficency when I did it but im usually pressed for time and jsut do a dunk sparge.

Lastly, and again out of your hands for this recipe but once you have abetter idea of how your kit works, just add a wee bit more grain to the recipe.

Understood, i think??? I’m assuming i would then need a 3rd container to store the decanted mash? Or did you mean wort? As i said i’m new here so bear with the stupid questions please. I do have a spare container by the way.

On my 1st attempt i literally stood there for the full mash stirring continuosly (not sure of that’s the correct method?) and will be doing the same for this one as well, unless someone tells me i’m doing it wrong. (Feel Free)

 

[Brewnaldo]

Understood, i think??? I’m assuming i would then need a 3rd container to store the decanted mash? Or did you mean wort? As i said i’m new here so bear with the stupid questions please. I do have a spare container by the way.

On my 1st attempt i literally stood there for the full mash stirring continuosly (not sure of that’s the correct method?) and will be doing the same for this one as well, unless someone tells me i’m doing it wrong. (Feel Free)

Na stir as much as you can be arsed! I also sometimes recirc out the bottom tap into a jug and back in the top to try and ensure even temp distribution. I really should get a pump.

Yeah I guess I mean wort.... Once the mash time is complete, drain off 1 litre (or any volume of your chosing) into a container (I use an FV) replace with 1 litre of your sparge water, stir and recirc for a few minutes then repeat until you have 10 litres of wort sat in your spare FV and no sparge water left. Then you can remove the grain bag, squeeze the remains out of it, then throw the whole lot in the kettle for the boil.

I initially didnt think I had picked up much in terms of efficiency, gravity wise at least but what I found was that where my usual 25l mash, 10l dunk sparge would yield maybe 30-31 litres into the kettle, with HB's method I had like 33-34 litres going in. Less wastage of sugary wort effectively. This allowed me to dial back my initial mash water a bit and so id mash in maybe 23 or 24 litres and pick up gravity points that way.

As I say, I dont always do it due to time constraints but if you are after BIAB efficiency points it does make a difference. And again, Hazelwood uses a pump and a spray nozzle which is even better.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Understood, i think??? I’m assuming i would then need a 3rd container to store the decanted mash? Or did you mean wort? As i said i’m new here so bear with the stupid questions please. I do have a spare container by the way.

On my 1st attempt i literally stood there for the full mash stirring continuosly (not sure of that’s the correct method?) and will be doing the same for this one as well, unless someone tells me i’m doing it wrong. (Feel Free)

You don’t need to stir continuously, an occasional stir is fine. Many people don’t even do that.

To improve efficiency you can mash for longer on the assumption you haven’t extracted all the sugars within an hour. A finer crush (not too fine or you might end up with one big sticky dough ball) can help by producing a bigger surface area for the water to dissolve the sugars. You can make sure the mash is at the right pH to get the best performance from the enzymes that break down the starches into sugars. Your main improvement though is likely to come from the sparge. You would need a third container to hold the wort you’ve drained off. You can also consider draining all the wort from the first mash then tipping all your sparge water on the grain and do another mash, add this water to the wort previously drained.

In the end you need to just do a brew and if your gravity falls 10% below target just add 10% more malt next time round. Don’t chase efficiency particularly, you can spend time and money on it and a few hundred grams of malt might just be less hassle and cost little more.

 

[Brewelder]

Na stir as much as you can be arsed! I also sometimes recirc out the bottom tap into a jug and back in the top to try and ensure even temp distribution. I really should get a pump.

Yeah I guess I mean wort.... Once the mash time is complete, drain off 1 litre (or any volume of your chosing) into a container (I use an FV) replace with 1 litre of your sparge water, stir and recirc for a few minutes then repeat until you have 10 litres of wort sat in your spare FV and no sparge water left. Then you can remove the grain bag, squeeze the remains out of it, then throw the whole lot in the kettle for the boil.

I initially didnt think I had picked up much in terms of efficiency, gravity wise at least but what I found was that where my usual 25l mash, 10l dunk sparge would yield maybe 30-31 litres into the kettle, with HB's method I had like 33-34 litres going in. Less wastage of sugary wort effectively. This allowed me to dial back my initial mash water a bit and so id mash in maybe 23 or 24 litres and pick up gravity points that way.

As I say, I dont always do it due to time constraints but if you are after BIAB efficiency points it does make a difference. And again, Hazelwood uses a pump and a spray nozzle which is even better.

I’m also considering this (Re-Circ pump or similar) but then again, i’m also thinking along the lines of selling my gear i have now and going for an all in one system. I know the all in one makes more sense and i will probably go down this route at some point, but thinking it might make more economical sense to do it now so as to not waste money cobbling a self made system up myself. It’s doable and would probably work, but is it worth the hassle? Not even sure what the prices of pumps are or even which pump to buy?

All the other advice now make perfect sence though so for now this is the way i’ll be going. Thanks.

 

[Brewelder]

You don’t need to stir continuously, an occasional stir is fine. Many people don’t even do that.

To improve efficiency you can mash for longer on the assumption you haven’t extracted all the sugars within an hour. A finer crush (not too fine or you might end up with one big sticky dough ball) can help by producing a bigger surface area for the water to dissolve the sugars. You can make sure the mash is at the right pH to get the best performance from the enzymes that break down the starches into sugars. Your main improvement though is likely to come from the sparge. You would need a third container to hold the wort you’ve drained off. You can also consider draining all the wort from the first mash then tipping all your sparge water on the grain and do another mash, add this water to the wort previously drained.

In the end you need to just do a brew and if your gravity falls 10% below target just add 10% more malt next time round. Don’t chase efficiency particularly, you can spend time and money on it and a few hundred grams of malt might just be less hassle and cost little more.

The grains do seem a little on the large side, or not as crushed as i would have liked to be honest. I don’t have a grinder but i do have a food processor if that would work? Should do.