My second all grain lager not refreshing

[Yamye]

Hi all, I have only brewed about 5 all grain beers and my lagers arent refreshing like the commercial ones are. They taste okay so could this be due to lack of carbonation or bittering? I keg the beers and didnt use enough bittering hops and there is a slight taste of diacetyl.

 

[MyQul]

Welcome to the forum

Would you like to outline your brewing and lagering process and perhaps myself or another forumite will be able to help you

 

[strange-steve]

What sort of lagers are you brewing? A little diacetyl is common in light lagers and pilsner but if it's a bit too much then have a look at your fermentations. Presumably you're doing a diacetyl rest towards the end of fermentation? Also make sure you're pitching big, double the pitch rate for an ale, underpitching can cause diacetyl issues.

As for the refreshing quality (or lack of) can you describe what's missing?

 

[yeastinfection]

diacetyl,,,,made up word :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Yamye]

I brewed with 4kg pilsner malt and half kilo munich mashed at 64c for 60min.
75 min boil.
Fermented at 9c and raised for a rest to 18 after 10 days it still had loads of diacetyl so didnt keg until 3 weeks in primary. Since i have been all grain brewing i have had a problem with diacetyl sticking around. I made it on 23rd nov so its only 7 weeks old could this be why its not crisp enough?
I kegged it 3 weeks after brewing it and allowed it to condition until now, looking nice an clear with a good head. Many thanks

 

[MyQul]

Did you lager (cold condition) it? As the cold fermentation is what gives lager the clean taste but it's the lagering phase that gives the crispness

 

[strange-steve]

Which yeast did you use?

 

[Leon103]

What temp did you condition at and what keg are you using ?

 

[Simonh82]

The other thing to remember is that some people are more sensitive to the taste of diacytle than others. You may be one of the unlucky bunch who can pick it up at low levels.

 

[Yamye]

I havent cold conditioned yet as waiting to get my shed wired up for refrigeration up. Its been in the shed conditioning in the winter weather so far.
I used w34/70 dry yeast pitched into a 2litre of 1035 gravity starter. Then decanted and pitched when the wort had cooled to 10c. Im using a 19l stainless keg aeb. I can easily pick up diacetyl but have had a lot of beers without tasting it lile some of my ales. Ive got the keg hooked up to 10psi so carbonation is good and added 2ml isomersed hop extract which gave it a boost in bitterness which has massively helped as silly as it sounds.

 

[Brewmarc]

I havent cold conditioned yet as waiting to get my shed wired up for refrigeration up. Its been in the shed conditioning in the winter weather so far.
I used w34/70 dry yeast pitched into a 2litre of 1035 gravity starter. Then decanted and pitched when the wort had cooled to 10c. Im using a 19l stainless keg aeb. I can easily pick up diacetyl but have had a lot of beers without tasting it lile some of my ales. Ive got the keg hooked up to 10psi so carbonation is good and added 2ml isomersed hop extract which gave it a boost in bitterness which has massively helped as silly as it sounds.

Lagers can be tricky. Its all in the yeast (if it is a true lager yeast) & the way fermentation is managed.
Diacytil is produced as a normal product of yeast metabolism. Yeast produce among others a certain compound (a pre curser cant remember what is called,) early in fermentation which is tasteless but is converted to diacytil later on. Higher temps produce more & at a faster rate than cold temps.
Ironically it is the yeast that reabsorbs dyacetil later in the process, during ageing/lagering. So why do we warm our beer up for a dyacetil rest? We want this compound produced by the yeast to convert as much as possible into dyacetil so that the yeast during lagering can do its work & get rid of it.
You really want to lager at cold temps for a reasonable length of time to produce nice crisp crystal cleer lagers. 1 month or more at about 1c, is not uncommon The yeast will mop up & any off flavour compounds are then effectively purged or scrubbed off as Co2 comes out of suspension.
It really is a patience game with lagers but the results are well worth it:)

 

[Rob287]

Hi,

Sorry to sort of Hi jack this thread.

Iv done a starter pack my 2nd one and my larger is also cloudy. I have followed the instructions. Should i leave the fermenter in the cold instead. ATM i have it at a constent 21 degrees. I have left my next one to ferment longer than the 6 days the instructions say to do. 2 weeks iv read on here to then bottle it up

Thanks