More sparge water or less?

[jezbrews]

Everywhere I read that sparge water should be 1.5x the quantity of the mash water and yet the Brewfather app is saying the quantity of sparge water I should use is less, only 60% of the mash water quantity. Which is it?

 

[gyurmaember]

I sparge until I reach my expected pre boil volume. Don't overthink it.

 

[jezbrews]

I sparge until I reach my expected pre boil volume. Don't overthink it.

I'm not really sure how this answers my question.

 

[The Baron]

The answer is that there is more than one answer. Different "Experts" have different opinions so try both and i.e 1.5x and 60% and see which works best for you.
I personally use about 50% to sparge and it works for me

 

[gyurmaember]

I just gave you a foolproof method, instead of an exact figure.

 

[ChilledGecko]

You can work it backwards, if you are aiming for 23 litres in the fermenter and your boil off is 5 litres you will need a pre boil volume of 28 litres.
So sparge until you hit your 28 litre pre boil volume.
Your numbers will be different!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

As ever no answers. The answer is how much mash water do you need, early Homebrew books suggested a 2.5 x the grain weight ie for 4kg then 10 litres. The sparge would then make it up to about 32 litres of water to give you a 23 litre batch. However this gives a very thick mash and today opinion has changed so 3.5 or higher is the norm. Personally I go for 3.5 so for a 5kg grain bill mash I add 18 litres and sparge with 14.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Like others have said, I start from knowing how much water I lose during the boil, say 5 litres, and add that to the target volume in the FV, 23 litres, so that’s 28 litres pre-boil. Add in losses like grain absorption and general losses, say 4 litres. That gives a total water requirement of 32 litres. Depending on grain bill calculate your strike water volume, say 5 kg of grain I’d add 15 litres of strike water, leaving 17 litres of sparge water. I had to do several brews to determine the boil off rate and losses for my set up. Everybody will have different numbers depending on their method and equipment. You need to determine the numbers for your kit/process.
Happy brewing

 

[jezbrews]

I was just confused as to why people might want a stronger mash diluted by a large sparge (150% water from sparge) or more dilute mash with a smaller sparge (60% water from sparge). Like what difference this made, or no difference at all, just different tactic and probably same end result.

I presume this "pre-boil = mash volume + some % of expected boil off" also means the sparge will be topping up liquid lost during the mash ie grain absorption and evaporation?

 

[Buffers brewery]

Slightly off topic….sparging is a way of rinsing the grain after mash has finished to extract sugary wort that remains in the grain. So it’s a bit of a balancing act as to how much sparge water you use. Too much and the pre-boil wort will be lower SG and need a longer boil to achieve FV volume. Too little and pre-boil volume will be less and some sugars will be left in the grain.
Pre-boil volume=mash volume - losses from grain absorption + sparge volume

 

[jezbrews]

Slightly off topic….sparging is a way of rinsing the grain after mash has finished to extract sugary wort that remains in the grain. So it’s a bit of a balancing act as to how much sparge water you use. Too much and the pre-boil wort will be lower SG and need a longer boil to achieve FV volume. Too little and pre-boil volume will be less and some sugars will be left in the grain.
Pre-boil volume=mash volume - losses from grain absorption + sparge volume

Yes, this equation is what I meant. I mean, I know what sparging is for, it makes sense to have a decent quantity to ensure its washed off but at the same time, might have a negative impact if you then have to boil off more for longer.

 

[moto748]

I don't do a lot of sparging. usually only 2 litres of water. Typically, taking my last brew, 14 litre target batch, grain bill 3.3 kg. I start with 19 litres of water, plus the 2 litres of sparging but I also 'lauter' (not sure that's the right term) it by re-ciriculating 4 litres of te wort back through the grain, to try to get a decent extraction. That seems to wiork OK for me, YMMV.

 

[peebee]

I've got a brew on right now. 30 litres of mash water but I've held back 1.5L for "sparging" ... because it wouldn't all fit in the mash tun (Grainfather) otherwise.

Any more lengths of string you need measuring?

 

[Cwrw666]

You guys love your measuring.

I've got a 30 L boiler - I fill it so high, do the mash, hoist the bag out and dunk sparge in 3 kettlefuls of hot water (2 boiling, 1 cold) and tip that in the boiler. If I've done it right the boiler will be full to an inch and a half from the top so it won't boil over.
After the boil I'll end up with between 4 and 4.5 gallons of wort in my FV.
If that sounds a bit slap-dash and unscientific I'll just point out that my efficiency usually works out at around 83%.

 

[Buffers brewery]

You guys love your measuring.

I've got a 30 L boiler - I fill it so high, do the mash, hoist the bag out and dunk sparge in 3 kettlefuls of hot water (2 boiling, 1 cold) and tip that in the boiler. If I've done it right the boiler will be full to an inch and a half from the top so it won't boil over.
After the boil I'll end up with between 4 and 4.5 gallons of wort in my FV.
If that sounds a bit slap-dash and unscientific I'll just point out that my efficiency usually works out at around 83%.

Doesn’t sound slap dash at all @Cwrw666 . Sounds like you know your kit and process inside out

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I think there are theories behind this but in practice people have found those theories to be a bit…well, theoretical.

The amount of water you use to mash affects the “thickness” of the mash and this is supposed to favour some enzymatic reactions in the way that temperature affects enzymatic reactions leafing to a thinner dryer beer or a more full bodied sweeter beer. There is something to be said for mash thickness if you’re doing a decoction mash but otherwise…?

As you sparge the clean water flushes sugars out of the grain and there is supposed to be a point where the gravity falls to a level where you risk flushing out tannins resulting in astringency in your beer. This would mean there is a limit to how much you can sparge. I can’t say I’ve ever experienced any astringency in my beers regardless.

Many people do whatever is practical for them within the constraints of their kit. I normally mash with 22 litres and sparge with 8. When I’m brewing a stronger beer I have to mash with 20 litres (and sparge with 10 - I still want 20 litres of beer) because the grain takes up all the space.