MJ Liberty Bell yeast

[moto748]

In the unlikely event that any is interested, , further still to post above: I am drinking of that LB batch now. Clarity and carbonation has calmed down, it looks an acceptable pint now. Eventually. but I don't like it much. It smells weird, and has a kinda fruity flavour (would that be what people call phenolic? I really don't know). And the point is, because this was a split batch, and the other half tasted quite different, I feel it must be down to the yeast.

[edit]

Well that what I was going to post!

Then it struck me, what someone is going to say is, well in that case, you must have had some kind of infection in the secondary vessel you pitched the LB yeast in, which didn't happen with the other half.

And I thought, that's a fair point!

But I dunno. maybe it's a character of the yeast that I like but others don't? And is this what an infection can smell like?

But all I will say is that if it an infection, it's the first I've ever suffered.

Any elucidation would be very welcome.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Fruit flavours are generally esters - the classic ones are banana and peardrops.

The classic phenolic flavours of beer are cloves and black pepper but again there's a range.

 

[Sandimas]

I'll have a look at my recent beers to see if I can recognise any of the above: I messed up a recent brew order and forgot the yeast so had to go back to Wilko Gervin. I have been detecting a little adverse flavour in some beers, will see if it's the ones made with LB. I will say that LB seems to work best with beers with more late hopping, not IPAs (tend to us US05 for those) but British ales with a decent late hop. For standard bitters with little/no late-hop I do think S-04 or Gervin is better.

 

[Braufather]

It smells weird, and has a kinda fruity flavour (would that be what people call phenolic? I really don't know).

I have an English Pale ale done wih LB, that been in keg for about 6 weeks now, that smells the same( not so much fruity but alcoholish. i thought it might be some type of infection but not sure. Im leaving it few more weeks and go back to it.

 

[clib]

Yeah, according to Langdon and Suregork, it has the same genetic makeup as S-O4. Bottom line is that S-04 is boring as hell while Liberty Bell has a bit of character to it. And it's faster.

I find this hard to fathom. Makes me a bit skeptical of the genetic analysis tbh. It doesn't seem to be perfect. Some strains have been re-analysed and moved to completely different parts of the yeast tree, which suggests I'm right to not be 100% sure about the results we have been presented with so far. Scientists aren't always accurate.

My belief is that M36 is most likely a blend. My guess would be Windsor plus Notty or Bry-97 (I cling to the notion that MJ don't use Fermentis for no really good reason). I've not used it for a while but my conclusion was that M36 is ok but nothing special. I did use it in a brew in May this year actually, a golden ale that was just ok. I much prefer Verdant, although they are different and Verdant has a distinct flavour that I don't want in all my brews.

I blend dry yeasts often now, to try to get closer to what i want. I reckon when MJ decided to create a yeast range, they looked at how they could provide things that were different from the Lallemand and Fermentis offerings. Blending would be the main way to do that I think. M31 and M41 are good examples. Two good Belgian yeasts, different from anything in the Lallemand and Fermentis ranges. Both of them are diastaticus, so they must contain one of the diastaticus strains from L or F. But I think they must blend with something else. Belle Saison, BE-134 and WB-06 are the diastaticus options.

 

[clib]

Sweet. It's readily available here too. Will give it a try next time the recipe calls for S-04...

No need to wait for that. Just use it in any English or American style. Time waits for no man.

 

[clib]

Possibly, or did they just drop one and launch another, leaving people to fill in that gap?

Anyhow, my theory is debunked as I've just discovered the Port66 is alive again, and I misremembered. It was Holts not Gale's yeast.

http://www.port66.co.uk/yeast-brewing-myths-ideal-house-strain/

Alive, or just embalmed?

Kemp was the person employed by MJ to devise their beer kits. I've wondered if he also advised on yeast. He will a know a lot of inside tricks like yeast blending and maybe using enzymes to achieve different performance. I've no idea if he did or not.

 

[dmtaylor]

I find this hard to fathom. Makes me a bit skeptical of the genetic analysis tbh. It doesn't seem to be perfect. Some strains have been re-analysed and moved to completely different parts of the yeast tree, which suggests I'm right to not be 100% sure about the results we have been presented with so far. Scientists aren't always accurate.

Hey Clib,

As discussed previously in the thread, the Mangrove Jack strains have not been genetically sequenced yet. The only scientist who might be messing up here is me. I am strongly considering the possibility that M36 is a blend, of which ones, I do not yet know.

 

[moto748]

I have an English Pale ale done wih LB, that been in keg for about 6 weeks now, that smells the same( not so much fruity but alcoholish. i thought it might be some type of infection but not sure. Im leaving it few more weeks and go back to it.

Yes, that sounds like the same kind of thing! As I said before, if you tasted it alongside the half-batch pitched with S-04, you wouldn't have thought they were the same beer, they taste completely different.

 

[clib]

Hey Clib,

As discussed previously in the thread, the Mangrove Jack strains have not been genetically sequenced yet. The only scientist who might be messing up here is me. I am strongly considering the possibility that M36 is a blend, of which ones, I do not yet know.

Ok, that's cool. Somebody said it had been genetically sequenced. Seems not.

 

[Braufather]

Yes, that sounds like the same kind of thing!

Hope it’s not LB as I’ve got another beer conditioning at the moment with it a a packet for my next brew.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I've read most of the thread but I still don't understand why this yeast has its own thread. What makes it unique, different or better than:
S04
Nottingham
Windsor
CML Midland
Wilko Gervin
Beoir

 

[moto748]

Well we only find out by comparing other people's experience, Cheshire, surely? This is the Yeast section: isn't that what it's for?

 

[dmtaylor]

I've read most of the thread but I still don't understand why this yeast has its own thread. What makes it unique, different or better than:
S04
Nottingham
Windsor
CML Midland
Wilko Gervin
Beoir

1) It *might* be a little cheaper than Notty, S-04, etc.
2) It *might* be a little fruitier than Notty, S-04, etc.

Otherwise I see no real difference or advantages. Some people have their brand loyalties, or have an odd experience or two that turns them off of a particular strain. However the reality is that people are making great beers with each of these yeasts, and the differences overall are pretty small, except for Windsor and maybe others that I am not familiar with (we don't have the last 3 in the USA).

 

[clib]

I've read most of the thread but I still don't understand why this yeast has its own thread. What makes it unique, different or better than:
S04
Nottingham
Windsor
CML Midland
Wilko Gervin
Beoir

It has more flavour than Notty, Midland, Gervin and Beoir.
It has higher attenuation and flocculation than Windsor
It is different from S04. Doesn't have that tart thing.

 

[dmtaylor]

It is different from S04. Doesn't have that tart thing.

I don't get a tartness from S-04. When was the last time you tried it? I think Fermentis cleaned up their act. I used it twice this year and it was very very clean, even lager-like and even fermented at room temperature. It might be worth a second chance.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Well we only find out by comparing other people's experience, Cheshire, surely? This is the Yeast section: isn't that what it's for?

I know but 4 pages on one yeast surely OTT?

 

[clib]

I don't get a tartness from S-04. When was the last time you tried it? I think Fermentis cleaned up their act. I used it twice this year and it was very very clean, even lager-like and even fermented at room temperature. It might be worth a second chance.

Yes not recently, but I do have a recently bought pack to give it another go.

I think M36 has bit more flavour though, unless that's increased as well.

M36, S04, Notty and Windsor are all different. And people have preferences, and they suit different things.

 

[Braufather]

Has anyone tried LB in an american malty centinial pale. I’m tempted to order some US05 before brew instead, although the recipe calls for English yeast.

 

[fgoulding]

I used LB36 in a pale ale and it was good but nothing special. I did the same recipe with Verdant IPA and it was way better for my taste.

These days, I mainly use LB36 for stouts…