Mixing Yeast strains!

[daveb]

Ok my NEXT brew i want to make a really strong Barley wine...malty with a good hop bitterness and some American hops for Aroma...a strong American style Barley wine i suppose...around 12-14% Abv...and bottle conditioned!

I already have a half gallon yeast cake in the fridge from my previous brew...it consists of two yeast strains taken from Chimmay Blue and a bottle of Duvell...my last beer i made was an imperial American style IPA around 9% Abv and was amazing!..the yeast is great..fast fermenting and nice and fruity....but i dont know if it would reach 12-14% Abv

Now i also cultured some O'Hanlons Special Reserve yeast from a 2010 Bottle of this beer which comes in at 12.9% Abv....the first two days i saw NO activity so i went ahead and purchased a Super High Gravity WLP099 yeast culture from white labs (dont laugh!)....Now after this arrived my O'Hanlons yeast is fermenting away like mad and is now into its second culture vessel (a demijohn)..

NOW here is the question......i know yeasts are cultured to provide specific qualities needed in any beer brew, taste, alcohol levels, aromas, flocculation, fermentation temp levels etc....but is it possible to combine ALL these yeast into one in my next brew the Barley wine?...What can i expect?..will any one yeast compete or subdue another?...or will i get the benefits from all the strains used together....ie a nice fruity Belgian, American, malty barley wine with a high Abv% lol....???.. :lol:

I dont brew or drink enough beers to warrant using each yeast in separate beer styles...plus am thinking the Chimmay blue and Duvell yeast combo seemed to perform really well in my last brew....i assume both yeast worked together and one didn't proliferate over the other?...the reasons i want to use them all is to combine the best qualities of each yeast in one brew...

Any feedback would be helpful guys, if you have any practical or experienced advice on this subject ...cheers!

 

[phettebs]

While I applaud your efforts, I don't know that you'll be able to control multiple strains of yeast to get the profile you are looking for without a lot of experimentation. For example, you may pitch one yeast to go after the flavor profile you want and another to handle the high abv. But there's no guarantee that the high abv yeast doesn't just dominate the other yeast and produce flavors you really don't want.

The Wyeast Belgian strains have the best alcohol tolerance but IMO would be way wrong for an American Barleywine. The esters they produce would be way off style for this beer. Wyeast 1728 (Scottish Ale) has also performed well for me at around 12%.

My opinion is that trying to mix and match strains to get the desired outcome is just too unpredictable to get right on the first try. I'm not saying you can't do it. I just think it would take a lot of trial and error and experiments to get what you ultimately want. But again, I think this is a very good question you ask and I like to see brewers pushing the envelope like this. :thumb:

Baz

 

[daveb]

Yeh though i pretty well agree 100% with you there based on hypothetical assumptions, am really wondering if anyone has done anything like this or maybe has their own favourite mixed strain of yeasts they know is working for them and exhibits all the qualities from those strains used in such combinations.

New beers and beer styles and yeast strains are all developed because people want to experiment to see what this or that will or wont do....though i agree i dont know if anyone has MIXED such strains to achieve multiple requirements/desires.

Anyway..am going to give it a bash and see what happens, am all for having a go and seeing how it turns out but i think you maybe right, one yeast will probably dominate and the others will just be lingering in the background.....

The Belgian yeasts that you say have the best alcohol tolerance will go to 12%Abv if your lucky, ive had 9-11% with chimmay blue/Duvell yeast no problem, but i have already cultured an O'Hanlons brewers special reserve yeast from a bottle conditioned beer at 13%Abv and i also have the Super High Gravity WLP099 yeast culture from white labs which is supposed to be good for 24%Abv! and is particularly suited to barley wines....(assuming you can provide ideal optimal brewing methods and multiple wort additions to reduce osmotic stress on the yeast etc) so am going to stick with these!

I can only assume no one here has experimented with different yeast strains in a mixed approach and they all prefer to stick rigidly to what they know and trust......thanks anyway for the reply but am going to go ahead and see what happens...maybe I WILL get the best qualities from all the Yeasts in a combined way?...there is only one way to find out!

 

[phettebs]

Please post back with your results. You might inspire me to try!

 

[wilsoa1111]

i believe there was a section in brew like a monk where they discussed mixed yeasts, but they had a system where they started with one yeast then added more strains in a sequence so to give a consistent end result and kept everything chugging long nicely.

if it were me and u wanted a nice american barley wine i would stick with the high alcohol one, or the o'hanlans (pos easier/better? someone mentioned the wyeast one is great but a bit of a pain to get it to perform without some practice)

the belgian ones get way to funky at those abvs

 

[pittsy]

Have you thought about doing a few smaller batches with different yeasts with each some of what your after then blending the beers once fermented , again it will take a lot of batches to get right .I have read some breweries do this (like Belgian etc)

 

[daveb]

Cheers guys for the replies...i think all the suggestions are good and if am honest i should conduct a few smaller tests..anyway am going to see what happens using just the O'Hanlons and the white lab yeast to see how they perform together on an 8 gall batch. I agree the Belgian Chimmay strain is staying in the fridge for now!...thanks again for your replies..much appreciated!

 

[daveb]

Just a quick update...i decided to lower my OG and expectations!....so my OG was 1.125.....I decided to Use Amber Malt Extract Cedarex syrup and crystal malt mix seeing as i have used this combonation before with great success...

Brewing 8 galls!

I used 4 different hops 100grams of each..Aurora, Galena, Magnum and dry hopped with Cascade....So quite an unusual mix!....
Before the Boil i raised the water up to around 70-75c and steeped my 3 kg of crystal malt in a muslin bag for 30 mins...
I then started the Boil..
I added all the Aurora at the start of a 90min boil....with the Galena and magnum hops being added at each 30min 60 min and 80min intervals....

Started fermenting on 18/05/13 using Two yeast strains...one was a harvested O'Hanlons Brewers special reserve bottle conditioned beer yeast, the other was WLP099 yeast culture from white labs..i made starter cultures of both yeasts for several days before brew day!

After the boil was over and the wort cooled i oxygenated it for approx 30mins and added Tronozymol yeast nutrient.
OG was 1.125
Initial fermentation was fast and the blow off tube did its job for 48hrs!....after that an airlock was fitted..
After approx 1 week (27/05/13) i decided to do a gravity check....it was now at 1.042.....and the airlock was a steady every 5 secs bubble activity..

After approx just under two weeks (28/05/13) i decided to dry hop with Cascade (100grams)..

Just over two weeks and the gravity is now at 1.024...and a bubble still every 5secs!...i have been rousing the fermenter once every day...

Am hoping this will be fully fermented out within the next 7-10days...so i can proceed with bottling!....it already smells amazing!....Am hoping for some good attenuation and a final gravity around 1.015-18....which i would be really pleased with!...so far its showing around 13.5% Abv alcohol levels...

Fermentation temps have been around a steady 21-23c...

This is the strongest beer i have brewed so far and am just wondering how low the final gravity will go?... :shock:

 

[TidalPete]

I've never made a Barley Wine but plan on doing so ASAP & very interested in your multiple yeast pitching which is another thing I've never attempted.
How did the bottling go? Did you add yeast to the bottles or just sugar? What was you FG? Most importantly of all, how did it taste? Did one yeast overpower the other or did everything live up to your expectations?
Very keen on any info I can get here. :

 

[Darcey]

I have been doing some experiments with yeasts recently. Mostly using a 'guest' yeast such as a Saison, Wheat & Belgian style and ferment the beer for 4 days on that then I pitch my house yeast to get the beer down to where I need it.

Works for me as I know my yeast quite well but I still get the flavours from the start of fermentation for different styles. For really high ABV its normal to pitch big of a normal yeast then periodically adding champagne or 'high alcohol' yeasts with sugar additions. I have not really mastered this but you can get 19% if done correctly
d

 

[musher]

I've been reusing the yeast from my TC brews, and it seems to be getting stronger if that is possible. The last batch started bubbling almost instantly and has been going like a train ever since. It was originally Young's super, but I fancy introducing some Old Rosie yeast to get the bacteria content up. Does this sound like a good idea, or should I just culture the Old Rosie yeast and start using that instead?

 

[daveb]

Quick update today (15/6/13)......beer is still very slowly fermenting!

I took the dry hop bag out two days ago (after 10 days) and took a Gravity reading at the same time which was 1.012-1.015 ....yeast activity is extremely slow now...another week and am going to bottle!....... ..i had a quick taste when i took the gravity reading and its already very nice!..suck air in through the beer whilst it in your mouth and the alcohol blast you get is really evident!...like a sherry!

It still has a very slight but nice sweet malty full mouth feel, this is going to be a very nice barley wine (by MY standards anyway! lol)...

So using Dave's Dreaded Homebrew Calculator here:
http://dd26943.com/davesdreaded/tools/convert.htm

My barley wine is now around 15% Abv :shock:

This yeast combo is definitely working well!...Am sure if someone more experienced wanted too they could easily do a 17-18%Abv brew using it!...maybe using wort additions rather than one big heavy starting OG wort...Especially if they prefer to keg..they could just ferment it adding additions until they hit the yeast alcohol tolerance limits!

I still have to bottle condition it yet so i need this yeast alive and fully functional so am quite happy that this beer will be touching 15%Abv!..Hopefully it will be reasonably drinkable by this Christmas and the awesome cascade dry hop aroma wont have completely faded :pray: but am definitely going to probably have to store a lot of this for a couple of years so it will be interesting how this beer matures....good job i have made 8 galls or so of it!

 

[daveb]

I've never made a Barley Wine but plan on doing so ASAP & very interested in your multiple yeast pitching which is another thing I've never attempted.
How did the bottling go? Did you add yeast to the bottles or just sugar? What was you FG? Most importantly of all, how did it taste? Did one yeast overpower the other or did everything live up to your expectations?
Very keen on any info I can get here. :

I will be bottling using the yeast still in suspension from the fermenter...i will prob use golden syrup and use a medicine syringe to add about 15ml in each bottle.....

I have never used either yeast before so its hard to compare flavour profiles when mixed but this beer does have quite a similar taste to the O'hanlons special reserve if am really honest so am wondering if that yeast has predominated...it has that soft clean distinct mellowness to it, its not harsh, fruity or phenolic, it definitely has a sweet lovely ester character but its also a nice sweet malty mellow finish too, anyone who has drank a bottle of O'hanlons will know what i mean, its really weird since this beer has not even finished fermenting yet..so am really pleased with how its turned out so far!

Cant wait to get this bottled and will relax when i know its carbonated and maturing...