Liquid yeast, just how good?

[pms67]

Probably been asked a million times so apologies.
To you experienced brewers that use liquid yeast, in your honest opinion how much of a percentage is it better than dried? 10? 20? 50?
I use Mangrove Jacks dried yeast but am I going to all the trouble of my BIAB then being a cheapskate when I could be getting an x percent better beer?
I’m happy to pay for liquid but is it better cause I’m also usually struggling for time and the thought of making starters and building the yeast up (or whatever is you do) is putting me off.
Thanks in advance guys, thoughts???

 

[Clint]

A good question! I too often think about this! At the moment my beer seem to be working out fine..I'm still getting to grips with my kit so hopefully I'll only get improvement! Except for my last brew where I used a SO4 I've been using mostly cml with the odd gervin. I'm pleased with the CML in both real ale and American and at around 80p a go they're a steal. Would going up to say £7 a pop give you that much extra?
Interestingly cml are a brewery that brew trail beers and small batches for bigger breweries...do they use their own yeast?

 

[peebee]

What you see a lot of is things like yeast is responsible for 30% of the flavour in beer (or 35%, or 25%, or whatever). But if comparing a liquid British ale yeast with a decent dried British ale yeast both will be contributing 30% (or whatever) of the flavour of the finished beer. The differences between them will amount to 1-2% or so. Not quite as dramatic put like that.

Liquid yeasts can be a bit awkward to prepare (may be creating a starter a day or more in advance) and can cause traumatic situations. Dried yeast is often a rock solid performer and quite a bit cheaper.

Try them. At the end of the day you make the decision of whether using liquid yeast is a benefit

 

[Saisonator]

Why don't you just culture some yeast from a bottle conditioned beer, very cheap option.
The last Bitter I did using West Yorkshire Ale Yeast and I would say it was 30% better than with dry yeast, it gives a fruityness that adds another layer of flavour to the beer.

 

[MyQul]

Cost wise I dont think this comes into it. Although it sounds a lot, £7 compared to a couple of quid for dried, you can reuse yeast of course to make the price more or less negligable. Even if you didnt reuse it it only add 17p on the price of a pint.

However, there is the extra bit of hassle of making a starter, and if your short of time, this can be a deal breaker compared to just sprinkling some dried yeast into your wort. However some styles really do benefit from a liquid yeast and it's worth the time and effort to make the starter. With these types of beers if you havent got the time to make the starter, personally I wouldnt bother to make that beer

So this leads onto how yeast driven the beer style is. What I really mean is how ester driven. I like and make bitters , and bitter reciepe are usually quite simple. I find if they're fermented with dried yeast they can be quite bland as bitters are often (if not usually) an ester driven style and this is where a lot of the flavour is derived from.If I didnt have time to make the starter and only had time to use dried, personally I'd look at making a different beer and wait till I had time to make a starter. I understand belgian styles are similar (in that they really benefit from a liquid yeast, rather than they have simple recipes), but I dont make or know a lot about belgian beers

On the flip side lots of American styles are hop driven and the yeast takes a back seat. With these styles you can just use a dried clean yeast and it not make a lot of difference

So in short I'd say a) whether you've got the time to make starters b) it depends on what your making is whether you use a liquid yeast.
There are of course those who would say always use a liquid yeast no matter what

 

[Gunge]

Dunno, never used liquid yeast. But... my CML - brewed stuff is of a quality level with 'equivalent' commercial stuff.. imo. I've got some ale almost ready for bottling, brewed with recovered 1845 yeast. That may, or may not be an eye-opener. I suppose the thing with liquid yeast is the huge variety available and knowing which situation to use them.

 

[MyQul]

What you see a lot of is things like yeast is responsible for 30% of the flavour in beer (or 35%, or 25%, or whatever). But if comparing a liquid British ale yeast with a decent dried British ale yeast both will be contributing 30% (or whatever) of the flavour of the finished beer. The differences between them will amount to 1-2% or so. Not quite as dramatic put like that.

Liquid yeasts can be a bit awkward to prepare (may be creating a starter a day or more in advance) and can cause traumatic situations. Dried yeast is often a rock solid performer and quite a bit cheaper.

Try them. At the end of the day you make the decision of whether using liquid yeast is a benefit

I wouldnt agree. I've made very similar recipes with dried then liquid yeast and the beer from the liquid yeast was much tastier

 

[MyQul]

.....also, yeast can do other stuff like, attenuation level, mouthfeel and body. If your making a particular style you may not be able to find a dried equivalent that does everything you want, all in one yeast. Whereas with liquid yeast there are hundreds of strains, so your more likely to find one that does everything you want it to

 

[BeerCat]

I wouldnt agree. I've made very similar recipes with dried then liquid yeast and the beer from the liquid yeast was much tastier

I am inclined to agree. I think some dried yeast is excellent but when i started to use liquid i really noticed a change in the quality of my beer. Using a liquid stout yeast was a real eye opener for me. I have used dried since for that style but they are not as good.
It would be interesting to see some experiments with liquid yeast that has been dried alongside the original. I know they dry kveik yeast so presumably they don't think the final product suffers.

 

[trueblue]

What you see a lot of is things like yeast is responsible for 30% of the flavour in beer (or 35%, or 25%, or whatever). But if comparing a liquid British ale yeast with a decent dried British ale yeast both will be contributing 30% (or whatever) of the flavour of the finished beer. The differences between them will amount to 1-2% or so. Not quite as dramatic put like that.

Liquid yeasts can be a bit awkward to prepare (may be creating a starter a day or more in advance) and can cause traumatic situations. Dried yeast is often a rock solid performer and quite a bit cheaper.

Try them. At the end of the day you make the decision of whether using liquid yeast is a benefit

Rubbish, Yeast is responsible up to 60-70% of flavour.

Anyone can prepare, sanitation needs to be very good but any brewer should be used to that.

I get at least 6 brews per pack and have had up to 10 wirth some strains. With proper management it works out cheaper.

One is live and one is dried, think the difference between real mash potato and smash or fresh noodles and pot noodles.

If your happy with a second rate inferior product fine personally if I am spending 5 hours or so making a beer I want to make it the best I can and using the best ingredients is paramount.

 

[Gunge]

I hear ya... If my '1845' stuff is a success I'll give liquids a go. To avoid stir plates and a lot of faff, how do smackpacks work and are they any good?

 

[pms67]

Thanks guys, I knew this would kind of split opinions and it’s a personal choice I guess, I’m not bothered about cost (even though I’m bloody skint 😳) but if I ever get my lazy butt in gear I will definitely try a liquid v dried brew

 

[Gunge]

Thanks guys, I knew this would kind of split opinions and it’s a personal choice I guess, I’m not bothered about cost (even though I’m bloody skint 😳) but if I ever get my lazy butt in gear I will definitely try a liquid v dried brew

Me too... I'm as tight as a camel's **** in a sandstorm, so if I spend a whole 7 quid on yeast I'll either convince myself it's justified or go on an outrage rampage.

 

[strange-steve]

I think MyQul hit the nail on the head, if it's a style which is primarily yeast driven (saison, quad, hefe etc.) then it has to be liquid yeast every time. If it's a clean, neutral fermentation character I'm after (IPA, APA etc.) then I will happily use a dry yeast.

 

[strange-steve]

I hear ya... If my '1845' stuff is a success I'll give liquids a go. To avoid stir plates and a lot of faff, how do smackpacks work and are they any good?

Smack packs are not designed to obviate starters because they don't increase cell count. Personally I would never use a liquid yeast without a starter (unless maybe a brand new pack with an OG of <1.040) but don't let it put you off, it's a very simple process.

 

[Sadfield]

Thanks guys, I knew this would kind of split opinions and it’s a personal choice I guess, I’m not bothered about cost (even though I’m bloody skint ������) but if I ever get my lazy butt in gear I will definitely try a liquid v dried brew

I can see valid opinions on both sides.

Yeast is way more than 30% of a beer, it's everything. Taste wort prior to pitching yeast and it has no malt complexity, hop aromatics, body etc. Just discordant flavours of sugar and hop bitterness. Yeast processes everything added in the mash and boil.

Controlling the variables of aeration, pitch rate, temperature, health and nutrients is paramount to good fermentation, regardless of whether the yeast is dry or liquid, and possibly why dry gets blamed for being bland, when in reality it probably ferments more cleanly through no fault of its own. I don't hold with the drying process strips flavour out of yeast, when the dry and liquid versions of a strain share the same genetics. The more experienced we are as brewers, the more likely we are to use liquid yeasts, giving the impression that our earlier beers were lesser in part to dry yeasts.

There is a greater range of liquid yeasts, so it is easier to select on that fits the purpose.

Personally, I find I chop and change as required between the two mediums.

 

[BeerCat]

Who can resist WLP066 London Fog Yeast https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault?taxonomy_vocabulary_5_tid=24

 

[Honk]

I've recently started using liquid yeasts but it's early days for me so I've not come to a definite opinion but there are some good points above.
For those getting started with building starters Google up shaken not stirred method which will avoid the need for a stir plate and I've found works well.

Will be doing a lager soon, would that be a category where dried yeast should work similary well as liquid? I'm unlikely to use it often enough to get several brews from it so as couple packets of dried would be cheaper.

 

[Ciaran12s]

Not used one myself yet but I plan to harvest from one of my current brews and build up a starter (no stirplate or any of that) This is going to be a bit of a dry run (pardon the pun) to see how much time and effort it really involves and whether or not the starter is a success. If it all works out ok I'll try a liquid strain. Again time, effort and mostly the results will determine if i stick with liquid

 

[MickDundee]

I hear ya... If my '1845' stuff is a success I'll give liquids a go. To avoid stir plates and a lot of faff, how do smackpacks work and are they any good?

You don’t need a stir plate to do a yeast starter. These kind of things help but aren’t essential. I’ve only used liquid yeast twice, but I made 1L starters in 2L Coke bottles, left the lid loose and shook the bottle every now and then for 2 days before I made the beer. Simple.