License for tasting beer

[brewgoat]

Nige, I wish I lived in your world

 

[nige]

Hmrc can only link money used for the course not money used for a tiny free gift or unbrewed hombrew, this isn't a huge business enterprise here it's private classes, my god it would cost you 10, 000 and three years red tape to establish a paper round, I declare tutor fees not every pencil or piece of paper I provide. Sorry I will agree to disagree on this.this wasn't an international plc he was referring too just hombrew classes. He never referred to selling beer so he only declares tutor fees and cost he chooses to declare. I doubt he would earn enough to pay corporation tax.

 

[Pavros]

Nige,
You are completely wrong as the 'tiny free gift' is alcohol and different rules apply. HMRC can and will link the two transactions and deem it to be the supply of alcohol.

The original poster should contact the licencing authorities and HMRC for advice on what he needs to do in his particular circumstances rather than rely on the advice of 'Nige on the Internet'

 

[nige]

God I'm glad I don't live in your world. We will leave it there. Wow

 

[Pavros]

Hmrc can only link money used for the course not money used for a tiny free gift or unbrewed hombrew, this isn't a huge business enterprise here it's private classes, my god it would cost you 10, 000 and three years red tape to establish a paper round, I declare tutor fees not every pencil or piece of paper I provide. Sorry I will agree to disagree on this.this wasn't an international plc he was referring too just hombrew classes. He never referred to selling beer so he only declares tutor fees and cost he chooses to declare. I doubt he would earn enough to pay corporation tax.

Nige,
I won't go through this post point by point explaining why each statement is incorrect because, quite frankly, I can't be bothered and people would pay me very good money during working hours for that advice.

I'll just leave it by saying that your last comment about corporation tax shows that you still have missed the point that everyone is trying to explain to you

 

[nige]

A gift is a gift, I'm sure pretty much anything would cost a fortune for your advice however this is a very small teaching course we are referring to not a new international brewery. Is unfermented beer classed as beer.

 

[Pavros]

Already established earlier in the thread that unfermented wort is not classed as the supply of alcohol and is not covered by licencing regulations.

 

[nige]

Yes so it can be passed on to pupils should he wish. I have taught many private and council run classes, I see no real obstical here.

 

[Pavros]

That's not what his original question referred to.

He was asking about needing a licence if he provided beer as examples of different styles to the people attending his classes.

You seem to be confusing a licence to sell alcohol, excise duty and business taxes. They are all different things with different applicable laws.

 

[nige]

No I'm just referring to simple homebrew classes on a private small scale doesn't need all the red tape your over complicating this with. I'm not. I will leave this now.he did refer to unfermented beer which you yourself said carries no licence necessities.

 

[foxy]

I can't understand why this is so hard, hopefully common sense will prevail, the OP has come up with a business initiative and needs encouragement not obstruction from the establishment.
I can see getting the students to buy their own and to share the tastings could cause pitfalls.
Other than that declare a Holy Order, The Sacrament of the Sacred Suds

 

[Dutto]

............ asked HMRC and had been told it was an overly harsh interpretation of the law. ............

Let me tell you of my own experience.

As a Probationary Policeman I saw a lady crawl across a white line that indicated that she should stop her car in observance of the "Halt" sign just before the junction.

I walked over to where she had parked her car in an adjacent car park, tapped on the window to the car and the lady promptly fainted! After she had regained consciousness (with the help of her passenger) I pointed out that I was not going to book her for the offence and that I had just come over to point out the error of her ways. With her thanks ringing in my ears I left the car park and continued on my way.

A week later I was summoned to the Superintendents Office. He pushed a letter across to me and asked "Is that you?"

I read a letter which heaped praise on the "nice constable" who was "an asset to the police force" and had been "so kind and polite" to her after she had failed to stop her car. I puffed out my chest in pride and admitted that "Yes. That was me."

In a nanosecond, the temperature of the room fell by about 20*C and the Superintendent bawled "I decide who does and does not get taken to court - NOT YOU! Remember that and get out of my office!"

Unfortunately, he was correct, the law is the law. There is no such thing as an "overly harsh interpretation of the law".

Sorry!

 

[simon12]

This was pointless 3-4 pages ago, this has nothing to do with home brew, tax, profit or HMRC the alcohol discussed is duty paid and profit (or loss if any)made on the course will be taxable under income or corporation tax, none of this makes any difference to if you need a license to sell alcohol. This license if needed is granted by the local licensing authority so ask them. Apologies to the OP @Rafaj Ondrej that this has gone on so much and best wishes for the project. It may be worth getting a license anyway as its cheap and you could make a few more quid selling a few pints on brew day.

 

[Dutto]

and here's the place to go for Licensing Advice

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/alcohol-licensing

 

[nige]

Or he will be arrested. My point.

 

[MickDundee]

This thread is going to put the poor OP off asking for advice here again.

I have learned one thing from this thread - if I ever open a restaurant I can add £10 to the price of a main course and give everyone a free bottle of wine or 2 pints of beer. I won’t need to get an alcohol licence because this bottle of wine is a gift. If I ever get questioned about this I can say “it’s a gift, Nige from the internet said I don’t need a licence”.

I can also ask why the council are asking me about a licence when it’s all about tax and profit. They never taught me that when I did my Chartered Accountabcy exams!

 

[Clint]

Ah,but you would be still charging for the booze by adding the cost to the food.
If you were trying to do the same with tobacco you would more than likely not be allowed due to the nature of the product.
I think regarding the OP trying to convince authority that you are running brewing classes and then giving beer away may sound essentially fine but not to some..
It's a bit like taking trade rubbish home and sticking it your house bin...they want money!
I have been given free beer with an Indian takeaway from a non licenced take away premises.

 

[An Ankoù]

This thread started with a very fair question, has moved through some reasonable speculation and philosophical discussion about the way things might be or ought to be, to some irresponsibly bad advice, which, taken to it's potential conclusion, could land the OP in some serious ****. HMRC couldn't give a fetid dingo's kidney about what we think is right, wrong or indifferent. It has a job to do, which is to collect all taxes and duties due. They don't have any discretion in application of the law, They cannot turn a blind eye. They may have some discretion in the extent to which they prosecute transgressors and that's all.

 

[MickDundee]

Ah,but you would be still charging for the booze by adding the cost to the food.

I was taking the piss based on some of the comments in this thread Clint. I appreciate sarcasm isn’t easy to interpret in writing but I thought I’d gone so OTT it was obvious.

 

[MickDundee]

This thread started with a very fair question, has moved through some reasonable speculation and philosophical discussion about the way things might be or ought to be, to some irresponsibly bad advice, which, taken to it's potential conclusion, could land the OP in some serious ****. HMRC couldn't give a fetid dingo's kidney about what we think is right, wrong or indifferent. It has a job to do, which is to collect all taxes and duties due. They don't have any discretion in application of the law, They cannot turn a blind eye. They may have some discretion in the extent to which they prosecute transgressors and that's all.

I don’t even think HMRC arethe relevant authority in this example. They deal with the registration of the brewery for alcohol duty purposes (which I don’t believe to be relevant here as it’s purely a Homebrew class and also I believe the OP also started a thread on the subject of setting up a brewery a month or so back).

In the example of whether giving commercial examples as part of the course constitutes the distribution of alcohol, I believe it would his local council who would give the relevant advice as they issue the licences.