Lager carbonation

[MattHudds]

Hi all,

Just tried first sample of my first lager. It's been bottled two weeks today, so I know it needs lagering, but wanted to check the carbonation.

Unfortunately, it's super flat, and (maybe influenced by that admittedly) tastes sweeter than I'd hoped. Other than that I'm happy with the flavour.

I thought I'd gone high on the priming sugar, 4.5g table sugar per 500ml bottle (individual, not batch primed) as I do prefer highly carbonated. I might have miscalculated, but had hoped this was about 3.2 volumes?

I know from reading the forum that I might get the reply, "just leave it longer in the warm", but I'm curious as to whether it really will carb up?! It's been at about 18 - 20C for two weeks.

It's super hazy as I forgot to add my Britewort at 10mins, but the trub was really well stuck to the bottom of the FV when I did bottle.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[yrhendystu]

If it tastes sweet then a lot of the sugar you used to prime hasn't fermented yet which is why it is flat.
If you test this with a hydrometer and compare it to the reading you had when you bottled you should see it's higher.

 

[MattHudds]

Bah, yes. Didn't think to take a reading. I just drank it anyway...!

I guess I'm just curious as to if it will ever carb up, or if there's not enough yeast left in it (I used a packet of s-23). I only do 10l batches, so feel loathed to keep trying bottles!

 

[jMac]

How long did you ferment for? Did you transfer to secondary and lager before bottling? If it’s been in the warm for two weeks and the sugar hasn’t been converted, I can only think there’s not enough residual yeast to convert the sugar. But you mention lagering in the bottle, so, if you’ve bottled straight after primary fermentation, this shouldn’t be an issue.

Talk us through your brewing process and maybe we can see what’s happened.

 

[jMac]

Also, what did you use to clean/sterilise your bottles?

I can only suggest, as a last resort, maybe recharging the yeast in your bottles. Get some Wilko’s Gervin yeast, uncap your bottles and put the smallest pinch of yeast (maybe just a few grains) in each before recapping. Then leave another two weeks.

 

[MattHudds]

Thanks for the reply.

Looking at my notes, I fermented around 13 degrees for 19 days, then raised to 18 degrees and bottled 6 days after that, straight from the FV. Only means of control is being in the cold garage and using a heat belt with Inkbird.

Then left to carb up in cupboard upstairs. There's a thermometer in there which I kept an eye on and as I say, was about 17 - 20 degrees.

 

[MattHudds]

Sterilising wise, I clean out bottles with percabonate as soon as I've poured, dry, cover with foil, then on brew day, ten mins submersed in more percarbonate then Star San with a bottle washer on top of bottle tree, so hoping I'm ok on that front.

Might try adding new yeast then. I've got a bit of us-05 in a packet from a previous brew.

When recapping, is it successful to use the same cap? I'm not precious, could just use all new caps, just curious as I've not tried before.

 

[jMac]

Well, that all seems hunky dory.

As you say 4.5g sugar per 500ml bottle should get you 3.2 vol of CO2. It has to be a yeast problem .

 

[jMac]

When recapping, is it successful to use the same cap? I'm not previous, could just use all new calls, just curious as I've not tried before.

As long as the caps aren’t totally bent, you should be fine reusing them (stick them in a bowl of starsan as you remove them). Your capper should reshape them. You should be able to tell if the cap hasn’t gone back on properly, so just use a new one if it doesn’t seem to be fitted right.

 

[MattHudds]

Ahh ok. I'm frustrated, only my fourth all grain (after three kits). Really enjoyed my first but last two haven't been great so was really hoping this might be!

Onwards and upwards!

Thanks again.

 

[jMac]

Ahh ok. I'm frustrated, only my fourth all grain (after three kits). Really enjoyed my first but last two haven't been great so was really hoping this might be!

Onwards and upwards!

Thanks again.

Don’t feel disheartened - it will all be worth it in the end, and every frustration is a learning experience that will help you make better beer in future.

I must say I’m impressed that you’re going for a lager on only your fourth AG brew. You must have come across many posts suggesting it’s a really hard thing to brew right (particularly, like me, with only basic temperature control). I think I basically made iterations of basic pale ale recipes for my first however many brews.

What’s been your frustration with your previous brews?

 

[Burtsbeets]

I have to say, I have been experiencing carbonating issues recently as I am going through different yeasts for different styles. I noticed some of them take a bit of time to get carbing.

I found, with some of them, upending the bottles daily to re-suspend everything (particularly highly flocculant yeasts) worked wonders.

I did see that S-23 is highly flocculant so maybe this could help.

Is there much sediment at the bottom of the bottle? This can sometimes be a good indicator that the yeast is multiplying as it feeds off of the priming sugar.

 

[MattHudds]

I was trying a lager at this time of year mainly because I've no brew fridge, so hoped to take advantage of the ambient temperature. And curiosity!

Frustration with previous two brews were: 1) was making a bitter that my dad would hopefully like, but that too seemed sweet and malty and undercarbonated. But I don't really drink that style so maybe it's just that I don't like it. 2) I tried a gose, which I didn't love due to the taste, but friends really liked :)

I think I'm working out what I do like and also that I'm maybe trying hard stuff too soon!

I could try tipping them up, but there was almost no sediment in the bottle of lager, so I think I'm going to try adding more yeast (although the bit of us-05 I've got has been sat in the garage resealed for about a year, so maybe that's no good too!)

 

[jMac]

although the bit of us-05 I've got has been sat in the garage resealed for about a year, so maybe that's no good too!

It will probably be fine. You can always rehydrate first to be sure, but then it will be harder to get the tiniest little amount in the bottle (if you’ve got 1/4 teaspoon or smaller, a pinch, measuring spoon you can use that, or just the end of a small teaspoon).

It does sound like you’ve jumped in feet first! What type of commercial beers do you drink? I’d recommend perfecting a simple pale ale or similar first to get all your processes in place and familiarise yourself with your equipment/brewday routine.

 

[MattHudds]

Thanks! Will give the yeast a go dry and see.

I buy two custom kits a time from Geterbrewed, so my next is back to straight pale ale (mostly just pale malt, simcoe, then use up the cascade in the freezer to dry hop, MJ M44 yeast which I think was the yeast in my first ever kit)

 

[Spratt]

I really wouldn't panic yet. It all depends how desperate you are to drink it.

My very first lager I kept in the warm for 19 days after bottling, then tried it a fortnight later. Absolutely flat. That was in November. I then rather forgot about it, but came across it again in April or May, I forget which, and it was perfect. I had used 2 drops for priming sugar, not sure if they were the Coopers ones or the CML ones in the days they did them, but it was perfectly carbonated and one of the best Bohemian Lagers I've ever brewed. Though I confess that now, I always keg lagers rather than bottle them.