Kveik

[David Heath]

Ahh yes that would be Svein. He sends huge amounts out. Nice guy and he knows his stuff.
Ebbegården is,for kveik, quite neutral.
Skare is another type that has this profile.
This makes it ideal for hop forward styles or beers where you want to showcase a flavour, like honey ale for example.
All kveik is an underpitch. Go 60% of regular yeast as a rough guide. That tiny vial will work in 25L.
I usually go 30-32 deg c with this type of kveik.

Hope this helps :)

 

[AdeDunn]

You sure you're talking about Ebbegarden David? That's kind of the opposite of what I've read, which is that it's quite fruity and that you should avoid boil hops as it emphasises bitterness of boiled hops quite a lot? I've been recommended Ebbegarden a few times because of it's tropical fruit flavours, and warned about boil hops too? This is including from a chap who offered me some who lives in Norway.

 

[uDicko]

@AdeDunn I have also read these points when researching the yeast.

Have you got any tips for a newbie to Ebbegarden kveik from having used it?

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

I can’t get my head around pitching volumes,starters,no starters it’s something completely out of my comfort zone,especially when you stick all your parameters in beersmith and job done,there’s nothing for this,but I’m very intrigued,as this could be a game changer.I was speaking to a professional brewer some weeks ago,and they are doing some small batches in the brewery to see what they can achieve.

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

You sure you're talking about Ebbegarden David? That's kind of the opposite of what I've read, which is that it's quite fruity and that you should avoid boil hops as it emphasises bitterness of boiled hops quite a lot? I've been recommended Ebbegarden a few times because of it's tropical fruit flavours, and warned about boil hops too? This is including from a chap who offered me some who lives in Norway.

What about dry hop after fermentation?

 

[David Heath]

You sure you're talking about Ebbegarden David? That's kind of the opposite of what I've read, which is that it's quite fruity and that you should avoid boil hops as it emphasises bitterness of boiled hops quite a lot? I've been recommended Ebbegarden a few times because of it's tropical fruit flavours, and warned about boil hops too? This is including from a chap who offered me some who lives in Norway.

Yes, totally. I got this kveik direct from the source farm. The owner told me he just uses it for IPA and sent me the family kveik after seeing my kveik videos. Do keep in mind that any true kveik will mutate pretty fast depending on how you use it and also how the version you obtained was used before you got it. So you could get any true kveik from multiple sources and they will all be different. The Ebbegården I had was very neutral at the starting point. At one time long ago all brewing yeast was like this with multiple strains all together.It makes results unpredictable over the long term. That is why isolates were made in the first place. However, there is a company here in Norway who have worked with the farmers to lab the originals. They are looking to supply true multiple strain kveik with the true ratio of each strain in dry sachet form for homebrewers and brewery packs. I am in regular contact with these guys and when they launch I will be putting a fair amount of videos out about it. By having the kveik in this form it will be cheaper and if you want the same result everytime then do not reculture it, just buy a sachet each time. It is one hell of a project though. The equipment needed is beyond what would usually be used by yeast manufacturers due to the heightened risk of cross contamination. Ive discussed kveik with Fermentis and they felt it was beyond their process. I will get the prototype strains in the coming weeks and really cannot wait for that day to come!

 

[David Heath]

What about dry hop after fermentation?

Best to top crop, then dry hoping is a non issue. Top cropping is far more desirable anyway as the yeast is in a healthier state, compared to bottom harvesting. Not all kveik allows this though sadly.

 

[David Heath]

I can’t get my head around pitching volumes,starters,no starters it’s something completely out of my comfort zone,especially when you stick all your parameters in beersmith and job done,there’s nothing for this,but I’m very intrigued,as this could be a game changer.I was speaking to a professional brewer some weeks ago,and they are doing some small batches in the brewery to see what they can achieve.

Yup, it is totally different stuff. New learning is required but it is well worth it. Brewfather has many kveik strains covered already (It is made by a Norwegian) but I suspect Beersmith will catch up. Kveik is for sure a gamechanger. Ive been using it almost exclusively for some years now for good reason! Breweries all over the world are now using it as are homebrewers all over also.

 

[Oneflewover]

How do you all keep the fermenting wort at the right temperature??! Not sure my tubular heater could keep things at 30*c+ at this time of year in my brew fridge in the garage.....

 

[David Heath]

How do you all keep the fermenting wort at the right temperature??! Not sure my tubular heater could keep things at 30*c+ at this time of year in my brew fridge in the garage.....

Well for a start I would never use a brew fridge.
It just is not fast enough with temperature change with just one temperature point. For kveik I usually use a dual skin conical fermenter with insulatation in the cavity. The heating is built in and direct as is the cooling via a cooling sleeve attached to a glycol chiller. Various manufacturers supply these. I heat the room to to 21 and I can reach 35 deg c with no issues with this set up. On the cheap you can use plastic fermenters in a cold room with 2-3 temperature controllers all attached to heat belts. I use this set up for kveik that needs temps over 35. I regularly ferment Voss gjernes kveik (the farm version) at 42.5 deg c. Brew fridges are best as kegerators :)

 

[BREWERS DROOP]

How do you all keep the fermenting wort at the right temperature??! Not sure my tubular heater could keep things at 30*c+ at this time of year in my brew fridge in the garage.....

I have 95 watt of tube heat in my fridge and it’s kept it’s temperature,the single 45 watt tube heater managed only 29 degree max.I have a temp controller with a probe taped on the outside of a plastic fermenter and one inside the tank,and both temps are the same after pitching the yeast.So will see what happens when I check the gravity tomorrow.This is in my small fridge,my large tall fridge wouldn’t reach the temps.

 

[David Heath]

Instead of tape try “Plumbers putty”. You will get a much better temperature accuracy reading and it is never ending on the amount of uses you will get from it. Measuring temps from just one part of the fermenter is pretty basic though. Go 3 point for much better end results.

 

[Oneflewover]

Well for a start I would never use a brew fridge.
It just is not fast enough with temperature change with just one temperature point. For kveik I usually use a dual skin conical fermenter with insulatation in the cavity. The heating is built in and direct as is the cooling via a cooling sleeve attached to a glycol chiller. Various manufacturers supply these. I heat the room to to 21 and I can reach 35 deg c with no issues with this set up. On the cheap you can use plastic fermenters in a cold room with 2-3 temperature controllers all attached to heat belts. I use this set up for kveik that needs temps over 35. I regularly ferment Voss gjernes kveik (the farm version) at 42.5 deg c. Brew fridges are best as kegerators :)

Think I'll wait to give it a go during a heatwave then!

 

[David Heath]

Think I'll wait to give it a go during a heatwave then!

For some people that is a great way to go. Some even stop brewing during the summer because they have no temp control and their beers suffer. Kveik is perfect to bring out at that point without a fermentation temperature solution.

 

[AdeDunn]

I brew year round, but then I'm a bit of an odd one I think as I basically brew what suits the season, kinda like our ancestors probably did I suppose. The most temp control I have ever used was a heat mat taped to the side of an FV, and blankets wrapped around. Probably why I'm enjoying Kveik so much, it lets you brew beer without having to pamper it. If you read the blogs about Norwegian farmers, they're not building fermentation fridges etc, they're cooling their wort to about 40 degrees or whatever, then wrapping it up nice and cosy to keep the heat in, then in goes the yeast. The yeast itself produces heat, keeping the temps up as the insulation keeps that heat in the wort. Then when the yeast has done it's job, the wort cools down naturally. I even brewed during that summer scorcher, made for a stunner of a Belgian Wit.... The sweat was pouring off me I can tell you..... But when you have a yeast that likes the warm, hot weather is a boon! From my reading around, Omega Hothead Ale has become really popular in the US thanks to the whole not needing temp control in warm weather aspect..

As to yeast mutating, sounds more like adaptation, with some of the strains thriving more than others in the conditions you are using it in, rather than mutation, giving you different results. Or it could just be the old neighbouring farms using different Kveik...

Brewers droop - dry hopping is fine from what I've read re Ebbegarden, it's just boil hops that can cause problems, flame out and dry hop ones are supposed to be fine. From my research, this makes it a brilliant yeast for beers like NEIPA, where folks are putting the hops in later anyway. Not used mine yet though, it's still in it's phial in the fridge. I'll do what I always do though, and do a big starter with it first, then take about 5-10mls (that's usually all you need) out to use in a brew, store the rest for future use. Check your source though, in case you have the same stuff David is brewing with. Most of the Ebbegarden I've seen folks using though is the same stuff Lars Garshol collected, which gives nice tropical fruit flavours, and enhances hop bitterness. Not all of the Norwegian farmers in a particular region though actually have the same yeast, some have mixed it at some point, others have replaced it completely using a Kveik for a neighbouring region after theirs got contaminated with something less than pleasant... Any time spent researching the topic, you'll find plenty of accounts of this occurring, and the so called Kveik registry is full of records of different Kveiks from neighbouring farms that are either totally different, then ones from different regions that are actually so similar as to suggest that at some point a Kveik got shared from one region to another. This isn't lab yeast, nothing is black and white. Just browsing through this thread, you'll find a discussion about somebody who bought a yeast that was sold as Kveik, which is actually a strain of Candida (so not Kveik), but it's on the farmhouse yeast registry (pretty sure that used to be called the Kveik registry) (with a note that it's not Kveik) because it was one of the yeasts (there are wild yeasts on there too, also not Kveik) Lars Garshol was given by a Norwegian farm on his travels.

They can't even make their mind up on how to name the yeasts.... Flipping from naming them after the farmer they got them from, to the region they're from... Perfect example, Stranda. Stranda obviously comes from Stranda (Omega Hothead Ale is Stranda), but so does Hovden (named after the guy it came from), which may or may not actually just be Stranda anyway....

Personally, I'd say your best bet if you want to experiment with Kveik is to do just that, experiment. Get as many strains, from as many sources, as you can. Use the farmhouse yeast registry as your baseline, remember to under-pitch (compared to lab yeast), and go for it. Over time you will find what you like, and what works best for what beer. Put it this way, I've so far made paler golden type ales and porters of varying shades with both Sigmund's Voss (Yeast Bay Isolate) and Omega Hothead Ale (Stranda single strain), and the porters are the nicer beers. But then, I prefer darker beers.... Don't go by what any of us say, as it's all just our opinion at the end of the day.

 

[Zephyr259]

Nice to see some good discussions going on again. That's my 80/- with Saure quietened down after 72 hrs, I'll see what the gravity is tonight and hopefully bottle it in the next day or 2.

 

[Oneflewover]

I brew year round, but then I'm a bit of an odd one I think as I basically brew what suits the season, kinda like our ancestors

Do you wear robes and chant incantations whilst mashing in?

Think most of us brew year round bud, me included. E.g lager in winter, Saison etc in summer. I'll give kviek a go if we get a hot spell, got some Voss sitting in the bottom of a bottle I got in a beer swap on here.

Personally I wouldn't be without my brew fridge. I think that it gives me good temp control, and enables me to have greater control over the fermentation. Each to their own though

 

[David Heath]

I brew year round, but then I'm a bit of an odd one I think as I basically brew what suits the season, kinda like our ancestors probably did I suppose. The most temp control I have ever used was a heat mat taped to the side of an FV, and blankets wrapped around. Probably why I'm enjoying Kveik so much, it lets you brew beer without having to pamper it. If you read the blogs about Norwegian farmers, they're not building fermentation fridges etc, they're cooling their wort to about 40 degrees or whatever, then wrapping it up nice and cosy to keep the heat in, then in goes the yeast. The yeast itself produces heat, keeping the temps up as the insulation keeps that heat in the wort. Then when the yeast has done it's job, the wort cools down naturally. I even brewed during that summer scorcher, made for a stunner of a Belgian Wit.... The sweat was pouring off me I can tell you..... But when you have a yeast that likes the warm, hot weather is a boon! From my reading around, Omega Hothead Ale has become really popular in the US thanks to the whole not needing temp control in warm weather aspect..

As to yeast mutating, sounds more like adaptation, with some of the strains thriving more than others in the conditions you are using it in, rather than mutation, giving you different results. Or it could just be the old neighbouring farms using different Kveik...

Brewers droop - dry hopping is fine from what I've read re Ebbegarden, it's just boil hops that can cause problems, flame out and dry hop ones are supposed to be fine. From my research, this makes it a brilliant yeast for beers like NEIPA, where folks are putting the hops in later anyway. Not used mine yet though, it's still in it's phial in the fridge. I'll do what I always do though, and do a big starter with it first, then take about 5-10mls (that's usually all you need) out to use in a brew, store the rest for future use. Check your source though, in case you have the same stuff David is brewing with. Most of the Ebbegarden I've seen folks using though is the same stuff Lars Garshol collected, which gives nice tropical fruit flavours, and enhances hop bitterness. Not all of the Norwegian farmers in a particular region though actually have the same yeast, some have mixed it at some point, others have replaced it completely using a Kveik for a neighbouring region after theirs got contaminated with something less than pleasant... Any time spent researching the topic, you'll find plenty of accounts of this occurring, and the so called Kveik registry is full of records of different Kveiks from neighbouring farms that are either totally different, then ones from different regions that are actually so similar as to suggest that at some point a Kveik got shared from one region to another. This isn't lab yeast, nothing is black and white. Just browsing through this thread, you'll find a discussion about somebody who bought a yeast that was sold as Kveik, which is actually a strain of Candida (so not Kveik), but it's on the farmhouse yeast registry (pretty sure that used to be called the Kveik registry) (with a note that it's not Kveik) because it was one of the yeasts (there are wild yeasts on there too, also not Kveik) Lars Garshol was given by a Norwegian farm on his travels.

They can't even make their mind up on how to name the yeasts.... Flipping from naming them after the farmer they got them from, to the region they're from... Perfect example, Stranda. Stranda obviously comes from Stranda (Omega Hothead Ale is Stranda), but so does Hovden (named after the guy it came from), which may or may not actually just be Stranda anyway....

Personally, I'd say your best bet if you want to experiment with Kveik is to do just that, experiment. Get as many strains, from as many sources, as you can. Use the farmhouse yeast registry as your baseline, remember to under-pitch (compared to lab yeast), and go for it. Over time you will find what you like, and what works best for what beer. Put it this way, I've so far made paler golden type ales and porters of varying shades with both Sigmund's Voss (Yeast Bay Isolate) and Omega Hothead Ale (Stranda single strain), and the porters are the nicer beers. But then, I prefer darker beers.... Don't go by what any of us say, as it's all just our opinion at the end of the day.

The thing to understand really with farmhouse kveik is that there is little point trying to tie it down. All this talk about what each one is and how to use it is pretty irrelevant unless you happen to get the version direct from the farm and they are usually that one also without many generations on it.
The version I got of Ebbegården from the farm was unlike the stuff Lars Garshol collected. People should just get what they can and judge it for themselves. A good base is 50/50 Pale to pilsner and give it 25 IBU via one neutral bittering hop. This way you can assess the kveik and how it plays.
This is a common way for homebrewers to use it here, that are not part of the farm scene.

As for the naming, well yes I agree but these are farmers not commercial enterprises. Much of this stuff is just passed on for free in Norway. A number of homebrew stores in my area will just hand it out to regular customers, it is not something they can legally charge for.
Ive been given kveik that has no label at all. No problem I just name it myself. Its all good.

Experimentation is for sure the theme with any farm kveik.

Having spent time and brew sessions with a number of these farmers I can tell you they are brewing in a very basic and going by feel way rather than measuring any part of the brew.
It works really well though.

I am part of various small groups in Norway that discuss this regularly.

 

[BeerCat]

Welcome to the forum @David Heath Its great to see you on here. :)

I was inspired by you to try kveik. Only used Voss ( from Norway) so far which has now become a house yeast. No boil hoppy 4% wheat beer is one of my favourites and a Imperial stout very loosely based on one of your videos. I used it for a sour wheat as well. Amazing you can drink a beer within a week of brewing. :hat:

 

[David Heath]

Welcome to the forum @David Heath Its great to see you on here. :)

I was inspired by you to try kveik. Only used Voss ( from Norway) so far which has now become a house yeast. No boil hoppy 4% wheat beer is one of my favourites and a Imperial stout very loosely based on one of your videos. I used it for a sour wheat as well. Amazing you can drink a beer within a week of brewing. :hat:

Many thanks for the welcome :) I makes me feel great to see people using kveik after being inspired by one of my videos about it. It really is magic beans yeast. The funny thing is back in times gone by they used to brew it just days before they drunk it. They never bothered with carbonation back then. It becomes something else this way and again is something to try. When bottling I just make some up without the sugar for this reason.