IPA using Voss ?

[jambop]

Does your airlock smell hoppy?

https://scottjanish.com/examination...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/

Merkins eh? Beer is the new HiFi
In another study people who blind tested two beers which where made the same way but one contained half the amount of hops than the other could, not detect a difference orally or olphactory ! Merkins the obsesives who must prove something... because their Merkins.

 

[Sadfield]

Merkins eh? Beer is the new HiFi
In another study people who blind tested two beers which where made the same way but one contained half the amount of hops than the other could, not detect a difference orally or olphactory ! Merkins the obsesives who must prove something... because their Merkins.

How odd. The research is from the University of Leuven with the help of De Proef Brouwerij.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_hopping_late_kettle_hopping_and_dry_hopping

 

[jambop]

How odd. The research is from the University of Leuven with the help of De Proef Brouwerij.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_hopping_late_kettle_hopping_and_dry_hopping

Yes but the non scientist trying to interpret the data is . This data is simply that data. There is not a single bit of that data that suggest that average beer drinkers can tell the difference between one and another. This is indeed the problem for nearly all popular aromatic alcoholic drinks 90% of drinkers lack the palette to understand what they are tasting... they actually have to be told by the expert tasters F'kn laughable does not cover it

 

[Sadfield]

Yes but the non scientist trying to interpret the data .

The data is the data, and clearly shows hop volatiles are lost during fermentation.

Could be worse, a non scientist with no data.

the late hops have been subjected to 10mins of boiling my scientific reasoning says any volatile esters are going to be gone before the yeast hits the wort in terms of significance...

 

[jambop]

The data is the data, and clearly shows hop volatiles are lost during fermentation.

Could be worse, a non scientist with no data.

That is where I may just have the advantage of some. I was until my retirement a cell and molecular biology scientist with a major American Pharma company.
That data shows nothing I did not say in my inital reply, in fact the data proves my reply . Relax just because someone did a thesis on the subject does not mean that the beer drinker at large is going to notice any difference at all ... that is not the object of the exerscise at all. Scientific reasoning and data analysis is though.

 

[Sadfield]

That data shows nothing I did not say in my inital reply, in fact the data proves my reply

Do not take this personally but I am calling BS on volatile esters being blown off by fermentation...

The data clearly does show the volatiles are there before fermentation, and reduced afterwards. Any flex about previous employment, doesn't change the data. A calm mind can see that we both know exactly what the definition of data is. Facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.

Most brewers know this to be true and report better yield from dry hopping, over late and whirlpool additions.

As homebrewers, brewing for ourselves I'm not sure what the average drinker has got to do with any of this. Surely, we want to retain the volatiles from our hops when brewing an IPA? Layering throughout the process, retaining as much as possible. Not blowing them off to the atmosphere.

 

[jambop]

New HiFi homebrewing! Spend mega bucks on equipment and think yourself into a fantastic new realm of flavour and aroma because you don't have the senses require to detect them, just like HiFi spend mega bucks trying to retrieve frequencies the 99% of the human population cannot hear.

 

[Sadfield]

Oh dear. There's a whole load of erroneous assumptions.

Yet lacks the sensory knowledge to be able to decide for themselves what yeast to use in an IPA. Touchè.

 

[jambop]

So Voss fermenting IPA. My first try at Voss for anything and I wanted to brew an IPA. I had warning of overly orangey notes in the finished beer and with this in mind I fermented at 26 C which worked nicely because the ground water here is already at 19C difficult to get it cooler using the immersion chillers.

I pitched the yeast Friday 12th at 6pm and today at 7.50pm the gravity is 1.012 so 5 days to take the gravity from 1.052 down to 1.012 should finish at 1.010 my thinking? Unless you ferment at high temp it is no faster than Notty or Verdant IPA fermenting at 20C . Will still be interesting to taste the beer after it is finished fermenting and ageing prior to cooling and bottling conditioning. I tasted the garvity check and it was very nice if a little hoppy that will round off though.

 

[MashBag]

Beer sounds like it is heading in the right direction. Looking forward to the tasting notes.

As for temp control, could of other ideas for you.

Consider a chiller coil? This doesn't have to be expensive or complex. You could also pitch little higher and let it the temp settle? Ice is quite handy too.

 

[DCBC]

I love many kveik strains, but I can't think of a good use of Voss for anything. As many have said, it creates a strong orange flavour, and as I have said before IMO it strips out all of the malty backbone of the beer, making it taste thin like an orange squash, and accentuating the bitterness of the hops.

EDIT! so yeah I would love to hear how you get on with it

 

[jambop]

Beer sounds like it is heading in the right direction. Looking forward to the tasting notes.

As for temp control, could of other ideas for you.

Consider a chiller coil? This doesn't have to be expensive or complex. You could also pitch little higher and let it the temp settle? Ice is quite handy too.

I use a fridge and ink birds for my temperature control for fermenting, conditioning and for storage so everything is at the correct temperature. On the Voss, well it is said by Lallemand to be best between 25 and 40C with the sweet spot between 35 and 40C . I had been warned that at the higher end of the range more orange esters were produced so chose to ferment lower at 26C because that is easily attainable with my immersion chillers and I did not need to chill further. What is interesting is that Voss appears to only be thta much faster fermenting at high temperatures. Of course this is to be expected but Verdant IPA and Notty are in my experience just about as fast as Voss but at a much lower temperature. I find Notty and Verdant at 20C have finished at 4 days whereas Voss has still .002 to go on day 5 at 26C .
To be honest I doubt I will detect anything of the orange that Voss is said to produce because I used a lower fermenting temp and the hops I used are all heavily wieghted towards citris flavour/aroma notes. With hindsight I should have just gone with a high temp fermentation and produced the orange flavoured esters.... but what about the hop aroma notes being lost due to high temperature blow off

One thing about the fermentationI did not stir the wort during fermentation that may have ahd a baring on the time scale normally I stir ever day with Notty and Verdant.

 

[jambop]

I love many kveik strains, but I can't think of a good use of Voss for anything. As many have said, it creates a strong orange flavour, and as I have said before IMO it strips out all of the malty backbone of the beer, making it taste thin like an orange squash, and accentuating the bitterness of the hops.

EDIT! so yeah I would love to hear how you get on with it

Well I will be starting to cool prior to conditioning soon . I will let you know if the fermentation did produce notes of Orange but this is a 53 IBU IPA made with Columbus,Cascade, Mosaic and Citra I think I wil be hard pressed to find it

 

[DCBC]

Well I will be starting to cool prior to conditioning soon . I will let you know if the fermentation did produce notes of Orange but this is a 53 IBU IPA made with Columbus,Cascade, Mosaic and Citra I think I wil be hard pressed to find it

Sounds delicious! Look forward to finding out

 

[dv12]

Watching this with interest. I brewed David Heaths American Blonde last night with Lallemand Voss Dried. I had not heard about the orange flavour before. So am intrigued. I have 10 psi of pressure and sitting about 30C.
I only used kveik because im going on holiday next week so i am hoping for a very fast fermentation.

 

[The Baron]

I love many kveik strains, but I can't think of a good use of Voss for anything. As many have said, it creates a strong orange flavour, and as I have said before IMO it strips out all of the malty backbone of the beer, making it taste thin like an orange squash, and accentuating the bitterness of the hops.

EDIT! so yeah I would love to hear how you get on with it

It has its place and it does not over power IPA hops it adds a orangey undertone(depends on temperature) to it of which most brewers who read this forum are aware of.
It is good in IPA's Pales and can be used in cloning beers that have a fruity orange taste like some bitters.
Regards the bitterness I have used it many times and IMO it does not add to bitterness.
As I have said it has it's place especially in the summer for brewers who do not have full temperature control.
There are plenty other yeasts that have to be used in the right place and are indicative of styles

 

[jambop]

Watching this with interest. I brewed David Heaths American Blonde last night with Lallemand Voss Dried. I had not heard about the orange flavour before. So am intrigued. I have 10 psi of pressure and sitting about 30C.
I only used kveik because im going on holiday next week so i am hoping for a very fast fermentation.

Well at atmospheric pressure and at 35C Lallemand say two to three days to complete fermentation. Though someone on her says that fermentation is still not complete at the point where the gravity is stable and there is no more sugar to break down. You have to leave it for a good bit longer! Although I have never done that I chill when the gravity stops falling the condition the beer.

 

[jambop]

Sounds delicious! Look forward to finding out

I will let you know in a couple of weeks.

 

[The Baron]

I have put on a Smash El Dorado 2 days ago with a Smash Taiheke at the same time with Kveik.
The El Dorado is down to 1.011 this morning so I sneaked a taste quite good but will change as it finishes the last couple of point.
Both pitched @ 40c and left to freefall in temp.
This obviously in regards my issues I have had with Saturated yeast and IPA's and bitterness in my thread

Does any other brewers go through phases of the beers being brewed are not want they wany anymore?"​

It may not be the Saturated but maybe the Kveik seems have returned some normality albeit with a reduced hop schedule

 

[Rodcx500z]

I have used voss a few times, always start it high and let it free fall, i have never had the orange flavour