Inexpensive way to aerate wort

[wezil]

Hi theres always CO2 in water,(water companies keep the O2 low so it dosn't corrode their pipes) other wise no aquatic plants! and you can't stop oxygen reaching it's correct level for a given temp (it does this almost instantly) Surface area is the key, tall thin bad, short wide good.Dr Herbet Axelrod in his book about tropical fish quotes an experiment where a tank was filled with fish and a glass lid with oil sealing the edges to 'eliminate' any oxygen entering was used (the fish respire CO2) so the fish should have drowned in short order!!
Thankfully they were fine proving it's nearly impossible to keep oxygen out of water. And a decent air pump should pump down to 2ft (iv'e got a tank this deep and it bubbles great, alternatively buy a Hi Blow (trade name) pond pump this will turn your Fv into a jaccuzi!! They do LARGE flat air stones to suit. Also a build up of CO2 causes the water to become ever more acidic leading to a PH crash. iv'e only been brewing bout a year but been keeping water 30+years (you don't keep the fish you keep the water their in)!!

 

[BarnsleyBrewer]

Doesn't boiling remove it ??

BB

 

[wezil]

Hi, it will remove some of it temporarily, but as the water cools (even a degree) it will be taken back into suspension at a rate that is equal to the rate of the drop in temp. And we don't put yeast into boiling water the temp rather than the lack of oxygen will kill them (it requires a great deal of energy to split the atoms apart, steam is still H2O just in a different phase so oxygen is always present it,s just not easily accessible to most living organisms) Hope this helps. (Because all this thinking and typing is making my head hurt) :rofl:

 

[Killick Greenie]

Won't the drop of the wort from the copper into the FV help aerate? I always seem to end up with a load of froth in my fv after the transfer and so far :pray: everything seems to work out ok. That being said I'm always interested in improving my beer so would the simple air pump idea do it? I guess if your squirting neat oxygen into the wort it will just reach saturation quicker than blowing atmospheric air through it over a period of time?

:wha:

 

[Dieseljockey]

making my head hurt

Same here.. :wha: and I'm only reading about it all...I think for the time being, I'll stick with the 3 foot drop from boiler to fv. :hmm:

 

[Aleman]

making my head hurt

Same here.. :wha: and I'm only reading about it all.

The problem is that there is a significant difference between wort and aquaria, and this is only adding to the confusion. :ugeek: :ugeek:

theres always CO2 in water,(water companies keep the O2 low so it dosn't corrode their pipes) other wise no aquatic plants!

Actually the amount of a gas in water is directly related to the pressure, temperature and the partial pressure of that gas in the atmosphere above the liquid. That is if the atmosphere consists of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.4% carbon dioxide and 0.6% others, at equilibrium the water will contain 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.4% carbon dioxide and 0.6% others. Some of these gasses take longer to dissolve that others so it will take time to reach equilibrium.

Aquatic plants can actually make their own carbon dioxide as they respire aerobically during darkness, and during the day time photosynthesis exceeds respiration. . .There does come a problem in a planted tank where the rate of growth is limited by the available CO2 produced by the fish, and if you want more plant growth you can supplement CO2 to encourage such growth. Neons for example are quite happy at 200ppm CO2, which is WAY higher than that normally found in their natural environment . . . except possibly during the summer where decomposition of the drowned rain forest (during the wet season) produces masses of CO2.

and you can't stop oxygen reaching it's correct level for a given temp (it does this almost instantly) Surface area is the key, tall thin bad, short wide good.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong in this. Surface area is the key as you mentioned but it can take considerable time to reach equilibrium. If you take a 5 gallon carboy and half fill it with hot water (having driven the O2, and other gasses, off) then when it has cooled measure the O2 level (it will be very low) If you Shake the **** out of the flask, even after 30 minutes you do not significantly raise the O2 Levels to that required for yeast growth (10-12ppm) . . . I believe the level reached in this experiment was 8ppm and that was after opening the flask several times, during the shaking.

Dr Herbet Axelrod in his book about tropical fish quotes an experiment where a tank was filled with fish and a glass lid with oil sealing the edges to 'eliminate' any oxygen entering was used (the fish respire CO2) so the fish should have drowned in short order!!
Thankfully they were fine proving it's nearly impossible to keep oxygen out of water.

Planted aquaria or plain tank??? If it was a planted aquaria then there would have been no issue as the plants remove the CO2 and produce oxygen., however in a plain tank the fish would have asphyxiated!! You just have to look at a pond in the summer, even with large amounts of 'oxygenating' plants the water just cannot hold enough oxygen for the fish to breath properly and you often see them gulping air at the surface. This is the reason why pond keepers use fountains and waterfalls. . . Introduce air and allow circulation to allow better gaseous exchange. Of course natural fish have evolved to live in low O2 environments e.g. carp

And a decent air pump should pump down to 2ft (iv'e got a tank this deep and it bubbles great, alternatively buy a Hi Blow (trade name) pond pump this will turn your Fv into a jaccuzi!! They do LARGE flat air stones to suit.

Very few decent air pumps are cheap!, and aquarium air stones do not compare to the likes of the sintered stainless stones that we use for wort aeration (0.2 micron holes) . . . These either need gas supplied at pressure (from a cylinder) or a high volume and pressure pump (I use a hobby air brush compressor at 30PSI)

Also a build up of CO2 causes the water to become ever more acidic leading to a PH crash.

This is not relevant in the brewing environment, when water comes from the tap it is around 7.2-8.0 pH units, even when it has been boiled the pH change is very little, possibly only 0.1 pH units, as the amount of dissolved CO2 in tap water is very small . . .because its very small in the atmosphere.

iv'e only been brewing bout a year but been keeping water 30+years (you don't keep the fish you keep the water their in)!!

I've been keeping water longer than I have been brewing :ugeek:

 

[richardagutteridge]

: Most of the above has gone over my head. I started AG 3 years ago and follow the advice from David Lines and Wheeler.

I just use the boiler to fv drop method with a good stirring with my trusty plastic spoon to get enough Oxygen back into the wort.

After 50+ brews never had a problem. :thumb:

ps Also give wort a good rousing after 24 hours re Wheeler's advice :party: :drink:

 

[wezil]

Hi Aleman i've checked my books, and the info is in Starting your tropical aquarium by Dr Herbet R Axelrod. Charles M Breder,Jr states in his article Copiea 1931 That the "production of oxygen by by the photosynthesis of plants in open balanced aquaria contributes little, if any,to that consumed by the animal life there in" Breder also found that as far as oxygen was concerned ,an "over or under saturation returns with extreme rapidity to equilibria" Axelrod " even 1.5" of heavy oil floated on the top of an aquariums water will not entirely keep out atmospheric oxgen from above, when the fish begin to use up the gas already dissolved in th the water below". "Despite this every aquarist has at one time or another seen his fish gather at the top of his tank,"gaping". This is not a lack of Oxygen but an exceess of carbon dioxide. Compared with oxygen, this gas passes from water into the air and from the atmosphere much more sluggishly.Consequently , when it appears in an aquarium, it takes an appreciable length of time for it to pass off". Also I think you meant 20ppm co2 not 200ppm, even 20ppm will see off sensitive fishes! However you could use a limewood diffuser(airstone), as used in marine protein skimmers. Altho replacing it every time would get expensive. I would be happy for you to post the evidence if im mistaken about any of this and will post my apology! Any way I think this post is becoming a bit much for the forum and will be happy for you to pm me for my email address to continue this disscussion (I love a good debate, whether im right or wrong)! :

 

[tazuk]

my way and its free no pumps no filters bla bla bla as you see it works well :thumb:

 

[wezil]

Hi just one question (could be me being thick) but what is it and how does it work!! Don't keep us in suspenders!!!

 

[tazuk]

Hi just one question (could be me being thick) but what is it and how does it work!! Don't keep us in suspenders!!!

here how it made

Heres what you do. Take a 6 inch length of tubing ( vinyl, copper, brass, or stainless depending on your fabrication skills ), drill 4-6 small holes, about .020" diameter into the center 1.5" of it. I used a spiral pattern for the holes, believing that it causes more turbulence, but the aerator tube will work fine with holes period. Drill a hole in the top and bottom of the vial to pass the tubing through, make the hole small enough to fit the tubing snugly. Drill some more small holes for air entry into the cap of the vial, I settled with four one-eighth inch holes. Put a cotton ball just under the lid, this is to be an air filter to keep contaminates out of your wort as it draws the air through and into your wort.
No need to spend money on oxygen bottles or cleaning of those difficult airstones anymore! This is the brewers favorite price point here.... free oxygen! Only one very small warning, if you drill the aerator tube holes too large, wort will leak out of the holes and fill the vial over time. You need to pay attention to the vial if you are allowing pressure to build in the carboy (too tight of a fit in the carboy), wort will fill the vial, soak the cotton and quit working. I now am drilling a 1/16 inch pressure relief / drain hole in the bottom of the vial where it is inside the carboy, venting the air under pressure in from the carboy. They work well in usage, especially if you use a rubber band around the tube to raise it in the neck of the carboy, as I have been suggesting, to increase the fill space in the fermenter before the aerator touches the wort.
WARNING: Do not use this item unsupervised, as you will need to be around to shake down the foam as your fermenter fills, or it will overflow with frothy wort.

Ever wonder what to do with those old yeast vials sitting around the brewery? I dont. Turn one into a Wort Aerator. If you noticed, they fit the neck of your carboy very well, and screwing the cap onto it keeps it from falling into the carboy. Remember, this item must be used in a vertical position or it will leak wort from the tube, its a gravity thing.

also have a look here some people use wine ones :thumb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DNw2KvTTQ

 

[wezil]

Ah ha! cheers! :thumb: