Hop Spider or no Hop Spider

[Brew_DD2]

First time posting a recipe so hope this has all the info you need.

GH DDH Pale Ale:

Grain:
3.5 kg Pale Malt
1.5 kg Wheat Malt
300g Carapils

Hops:

50g Simcoe (at flame out)
50g Amarillo (at flame out)
150g Citra (dry hop last 3 days)
150g Galaxy (dry hop last 3 days).

Yeast:

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III.

Mash 1hour at 65 C
Boil 1 hour 15 min.

Mash with 13 litres then sparge to collect 26 litres for boil.

OG 1049 FG 1010. Est ABV 5.2%

Just realised the recipe doesn't call for any bittering hops at all. Hmmmm. GH has never steered me wrong before I suppose.

NEIPAs rarely have a bittering charge. You get the bitterness required from the huge hop charges at flameout and dry hopping.

 

[RichK]

I use one, simply because it makes cleaning up afterwards easier but have often wondered if I'm reducing hop utilization as a result. Has anybody seen any testing to that effect?

 

[Dexter101]

I use one, simply because it makes cleaning up afterwards easier but have often wondered if I'm reducing hop utilization as a result. Has anybody seen any testing to that effect?

Brulosophy did one of their experiments on it (http://brulosophy.com/2019/09/16/ke...pider-vs-loose-additions-exbeeriment-results/)

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

whats the target IBU- with the flame out is it a hop stand or just add then chill?

If Im reading it right IBU is 29.6.
Flame out seems to be chucking in and chilling

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

great thanks!

This will be my next beer!

May swap pale ale with Pilsner malt though.
thats a lot of wheat isnt it, i made a wheat beer with not much more than that!

Also, Id be interested to know how it turns out!

 

[Braufather]

I will let you know, i will brew it in a couple of weeks!

 

[Braufather]

Brulosophy did one of their experiments on it (http://brulosophy.com/2019/09/16/ke...pider-vs-loose-additions-exbeeriment-results/)

as some of the posters picked up on 117 ibus probably invalidates the result.

 

[Dexter101]

as some of the posters picked up on 117 ibus probably invalidates the result.

I don't think it invalidates the result, it just shows that there is little difference in a beer with high levels of ibus. If the hop spider really limits hop utilisation then it would still have an impact.

Obviously someone else needs to do the same test with a low ibu beer

 

[foxy]

Hi All,

I bought a stainless steel Hop Spider a few months ago and have used it in a few brews since and it seemed like a good idea to save on cleaning etc. at the end of the shift.

However.

The last brew I did was my first batch of the Greg Hughes APA. Normally this has a great hop profile and the flavours really burst through, but this time they are just not there at all. The beer is drinkable, but really a bit dull. Almost no hop aroma either.

I'm starting to think that using the Spider is possibly the issue, as the hops are all gummed up in a wee corner of the boil kettle effectively. The Spider itself is a decent size, but the hops obviously aren't rolling around in all the liquid. I've also noticed that the liquid in the Hop Spider doesn't seem to roll as much as the rest of the kettle during the boil (if that makes sense?).

The first few brews I did with the Spider where an ESB and an 80/- so probably wouldn't notice much in the loss of hop profile, but on this one it is noticeable.

Next brew is likely to be the DDH Pale Ale from the new edition of Greg Hughes Bible (great update BTW), so looking for pronounced hopiness and therefore thinking of ditching the Spider as I don't really want a bland effort with an expensive (to me anyway) hop bill.

Just looking to see if anyone else has had similar issues and the Spider could be the issue?

I prefer to throw the hops in directly, just filter, drain the kettle slowly and be prepared to lose a litre or so.

 

[Braufather]

First time posting a recipe so hope this has all the info you need.

GH DDH Pale Ale:

Grain:
3.5 kg Pale Malt
1.5 kg Wheat Malt
300g Carapils

Hops:

50g Simcoe (at flame out)
50g Amarillo (at flame out)
150g Citra (dry hop last 3 days)
150g Galaxy (dry hop last 3 days).

Yeast:

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III.

Mash 1hour at 65 C
Boil 1 hour 15 min.

Mash with 13 litres then sparge to collect 26 litres for boil.

OG 1049 FG 1010. Est ABV 5.2%

Just realised the recipe doesn't call for any bittering hops at all. Hmmmm. GH has never steered me wrong before I suppose.

Just ordered this- may be the most expensive ingredients ive bought yet as come in at £40! looking forward to brewing it though! ive got an undead Pale planned for this weekend but will have a go at this the weekend after!

quick question its called DDH which i assume stands for double dry hop- if so doesn't that mean two different dry hop times?

 

[giampy]

Just ordered this- may be the most expensive ingredients ive bought yet as come in at £40! looking forward to brewing it though! ive got an undead Pale planned for this weekend but will have a go at this the weekend after!

quick question its called DDH which i assume stands for double dry hop- if so doesn't that mean two different dry hop times?

Yes DDH stands for double dry hops. In this case you add hops in two different time. The first before the end of fermentation, so geraniol is biotransformed to βcitronellol during fermentation by the yeast. Citra is the best hops, due to its high concentration of geraniol, cascade too.
Take a look:https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00428.x

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Just ordered this- may be the most expensive ingredients ive bought yet as come in at £40! looking forward to brewing it though! ive got an undead Pale planned for this weekend but will have a go at this the weekend after!

quick question its called DDH which i assume stands for double dry hop- if so doesn't that mean two different dry hop times?

Just checked the GH Bible. Does say to add both dry hops at last 3 days of fermentation. It does suggest to add half dry hops earlier at gravity of 1.020 then the rest at FG for extra fruitiness!

At £40 for the ingredients I hope it brews up a treat for you. Still, at about a pound a pint for a big old juice bomb it is pretty decent

 

[Braufather]

ok Thanks- 1020 would likely be around the last 3 days of fermentation i'd guess? so will add half then , i may add the other after two weeks.

Can i also just double check the flame out hops are not a hop stand at a particular temp? just chuck them in at the end then cool down to pitching temps immediately?

I am Tempted to put half in at 5 mins maybe ?- still gives an IBU of less than 20

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

ok Thanks- 1020 would likely be around the last 3 days of fermentation i'd guess? so will add half then , i may add the other after two weeks.

Can i also just double check the flame out hops are not a hop stand at a particular temp? just chuck them in at the end then cool down to pitching temps immediately?

I am Tempted to put half in at 5 mins maybe ?- still gives an IBU of less than 20

No mention of hop stand in the book. Just says to add them at turn off (assuming that means flame out).

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Just ordered this- may be the most expensive ingredients ive bought yet as come in at £40! looking forward to brewing it though! ive got an undead Pale planned for this weekend but will have a go at this the weekend after!

quick question its called DDH which i assume stands for double dry hop- if so doesn't that mean two different dry hop times?

Out of curiosity, what was the most expensive hop to take it up to 40 squid if you don't mind me asking? I'm assuming it was the cost of hops?

 

[Braufather]

Will have to check back but I have no problem with it! I brew to try and make the best I can, not to save money. Also that includes the liquid yeast that I will use again so let’s say 36 quid!

 

[Braufather]

First time posting a recipe so hope this has all the info you need.

GH DDH Pale Ale:

Grain:
3.5 kg Pale Malt
1.5 kg Wheat Malt
300g Carapils

Hops:

50g Simcoe (at flame out)
50g Amarillo (at flame out)
150g Citra (dry hop last 3 days)
150g Galaxy (dry hop last 3 days).

Yeast:

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III.

Mash 1hour at 65 C
Boil 1 hour 15 min.

Mash with 13 litres then sparge to collect 26 litres for boil.

OG 1049 FG 1010. Est ABV 5.2%

Just realised the recipe doesn't call for any bittering hops at all. Hmmmm. GH has never steered me wrong before I suppose.

Brewing this as I type!

 

[LeeH]

To clean out them pop them in the dish washer, they come out like new.

Other tips, recirculate/whirlpool if you have the ability and never fill them more than 1/3 full.

This will reduce the hop loss significantly.

 

[LeeH]

...sorry I use the canisters and just throw them in the kettle.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/401500429082

 

[foxy]

I used a hop spider on my second batch of Zombie Dust clone, vast difference in the hop taste and aroma definitely impairs the hop utilisation . In fairness the spider I used was this one which is far to fine. Better to throw the hops in loose and lose a couple of litres when the wort has settled.
https://www.kegland.com.au/hop-spider.html