Hop Spider or no Hop Spider

[The Baron]

I use a 300 micron hop spider and never had a real problem it probably does stop the full flavour but I have not noticed it that much. I stir mine a few times during the boil and wort does seem to flow through it easily enough as regards cleaning I tip it upside down in the bin then just back flush with a hose pipe easy. Maybe some people are being anal with the cleaning but as it dries any hop matter left will drop out with a tap or two and as it goes in the boil it will sterilise anything that may be left

 

[DCBC]

As a matter of fact I have been having exactly the same concerns as the OP in recent months. I bought a couple of hop spiders for boil kettle additions and for dry hopping and my hop character has taken an absolute nosedive compared to muslin bags.

I have particularly noticed that the restriction of the movement of wort caused by the presence of the spider in the BK seems to cause the boil to appear not to happen within the spider itself - as if it lowers the overall temperature and/or boil vigour, leading to lower isomerisation and maybe preventing hop oils from entering the beer.

I have also noticed, when dry hopping in a spider, that within 24 hours the hops tend to start to float and then to pile up above the level of the beer as they rehydrate. Once stirred back into the beer they sink and then stay submerged, but again, I have had two pale ales and an IPA which have been very disappointing indeed.

It would be a shame not to use them having invested a few quid in them, but my temptation now would be to try going back to tossing hops in loose, and then either pouring the wort through the spider into the fermenter or ignoring them completely until I get to the bottom of it.

 

[pms67]

First time posting a recipe so hope this has all the info you need.

GH DDH Pale Ale:

Grain:
3.5 kg Pale Malt
1.5 kg Wheat Malt
300g Carapils

Hops:

50g Simcoe (at flame out)
50g Amarillo (at flame out)
150g Citra (dry hop last 3 days)
150g Galaxy (dry hop last 3 days).

Yeast:

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III.

Mash 1hour at 65 C
Boil 1 hour 15 min.

Mash with 13 litres then sparge to collect 26 litres for boil.

OG 1049 FG 1010. Est ABV 5.2%

Just realised the recipe doesn't call for any bittering hops at all. Hmmmm. GH has never steered me wrong before I suppose.

Looks like he has upped his hops from his older recipes
Brew by James Morton is another that uses 300-600g of hops in most brews, a bit pricey mind you

 

[Braufather]

...sorry I use the canisters and just throw them in the kettle.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/401500429082

Are they any good? I see they do a 30 cm one which would be perfect for dry hopping in keg? I have a couple of the smaller ones already but can’t remember where I got them

 

[Braufather]

Looks like he has upped his hops from his older recipes
Brew by James Morton is another that uses 300-600g of hops in most brews, a bit pricey mind you

James Morton seems to use most in a hop stand for most brews, more than dry hopping, I wonder is this to cut back on the oxygen risk when dry hopping big quantities?

 

[pms67]

James Morton seems to use most in a hop stand for most brews, more than dry hopping, I wonder is this to cut back on the oxygen risk when dry hopping big quantities?

Maybe
I’m usually short of oxygen when I work out the cost of 500g of a decent hop for 1 brew!

 

[LeeH]

Are they any good? I see they do a 30 cm one which would be perfect for dry hopping in keg? I have a couple of the smaller ones already but can’t remember where I got them

Yes, simple to clean and effective for kettle and dry hop pellets.

Just don’t fill them more than 1/3 full to reduce the effect talked about on here to a minimum.

 

[Braufather]

Yes, simple to clean and effective for kettle and dry hop pellets.

Just don’t fill them more than 1/3 full to reduce the effect talked about on here to a minimum.

so about 100g max then?

 

[Keruso]

Hi All,

I bought a stainless steel Hop Spider a few months ago and have used it in a few brews since and it seemed like a good idea to save on cleaning etc. at the end of the shift.

However.

The last brew I did was my first batch of the Greg Hughes APA. Normally this has a great hop profile and the flavours really burst through, but this time they are just not there at all. The beer is drinkable, but really a bit dull. Almost no hop aroma either.

I'm starting to think that using the Spider is possibly the issue, as the hops are all gummed up in a wee corner of the boil kettle effectively. The Spider itself is a decent size, but the hops obviously aren't rolling around in all the liquid. I've also noticed that the liquid in the Hop Spider doesn't seem to roll as much as the rest of the kettle during the boil (if that makes sense?).

The first few brews I did with the Spider where an ESB and an 80/- so probably wouldn't notice much in the loss of hop profile, but on this one it is noticeable.

Next brew is likely to be the DDH Pale Ale from the new edition of Greg Hughes Bible (great update BTW), so looking for pronounced hopiness and therefore thinking of ditching the Spider as I don't really want a bland effort with an expensive (to me anyway) hop bill.

Just looking to see if anyone else has had similar issues and the Spider could be the issue?

I've tried a few spiders and experienced problems with reduced hop flavour and aroma. It's a basic law of physics, if you restrict the ability of the hops to come into contact the wort then you can't expect the same effect as if you weren't using a spider. If I use more than 150g pellets in the boil my filter gets overloaded and I can't pump out the wort. Mangrove Jacks make a very large spider with larger mesh holes which allows good ciculation of the hops in the boil, some hop matter gets through but the majority is held. I use one when there's a lot of hops added to the boil. When dry hopping I chuck the pellets straight in because you get more aroma than using a mesh bag or spider. However you need to cold crash for a few days and use a hop spider as a filter when syphoning from the FV into secondary or keg etc.

 

[LeeH]

so about 100g max then?

That’s what I put in the larger ones during the boil. Dry hopping I just throw loose in normally as they settle out well in a conical.

 

[Braufather]

That’s what I put in the larger ones during the boil. Dry hopping I just throw loose in normally as they settle out well in a conical.

i am going to attempt a closed transfer from my SS brew bucket, and want to avoid any debris getting in the keg ports, 300 g of hops- will probably put 150 grams in fermenter after a week and the other 150 in a purged keg. i'll need 4 of these by the look of it!

 

[The Baron]

Maybe I do not notice the difference when using a hop spider as I do not do massive hoppage at the front end (generally under 100g) and save my large drop for dry hopping using a muslim bag. Obviously if you are using a lot the hops will compact down and flow will be restricted I also stir to aid infusion

 

[Braufather]

Also, Id be interested to know how it turns out!

slight hop aroma. Minimal hop flavour. Quite bland really. Somwwgat disappointed. Next time I’ll go back to the west coast I think. I never have any luck with super hoppy low ibu beers.
One good thing though is that it’s smooth and creamy and no sign of being oxygenised at all despite ridiculous amount of dry hops.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

slight hop aroma. Minimal hop flavour. Quite bland really. Somwwgat disappointed. Next time I’ll go back to the west coast I think. I never have any luck with super hoppy low ibu beers.
One good thing though is that it’s smooth and creamy and no sign of being oxygenised at all despite ridiculous amount of dry hops.

That is real shame. Looks the part, but I suppose thats not the important part!

Wonder why low hop profile with the amount of dry hopping?

 

[Braufather]

Second taste was a bit better top be fair. initially i think my expectations were too high. on reflection the hops were there but i was hoping for a real juicy punch that wasn't, also maybe out of balance because there was a slight bitterness at the end that was out of place.maybe that was because instead of doing the first additions at flame out i did it at about 3 mins. its drinkable enough though. also i think the cloudiness put me off as the Mrs kept telling me it must be infcsted, despite me showing her that's exactly how it should look. good experience though but am now going to concentrate on getting regular IPA more juicy somehow!

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Second taste was a bit better top be fair. initially i think my expectations were too high. on reflection the hops were there but i was hoping for a real juicy punch that wasn't, also maybe out of balance because there was a slight bitterness at the end that was out of place.maybe that was because instead of doing the first additions at flame out i did it at about 3 mins. its drinkable enough though. also i think the cloudiness put me off as the Mrs kept telling me it must be infcsted, despite me showing her that's exactly how it should look. good experience though but am now going to concentrate on getting regular IPA more juicy somehow!

Greg Hughes APA would be a decent place to start. Without the hop spider it makes a pretty hoppy beer to start from, and Im sure the new edition recipe has added dry hopping

 

[Rogermort]

Quick question about the Sainsburys/Aldi type nylon bags. Are there no issues with having a nylon bag in the boil kettle for up to an hour? I've only ever used leaf hops but fancy giving pellets a go but I use a false bottom so I'm looking for the most efficient way of switching.

 

[Rodcx500z]

I took the plunge and bought a 300 micron one off amazon, as above I give it stir tip in the bin when done and back flush, I love it and I cant say I taste a difference in the beer

 

[Dads_Ale]

I have also found the same issues with hop spiders, especially when using leaf. Much better to just chuck hops in the boil as is.
The problem with pellets (leaf are easy to filter out) is stopping them all getting into the FV. They are difficult to filter as they quickly block any filters.
On my larger 50ltre boiler (wider) I can get an effective whirlpool by gently stirring and the hop debris forms a nice cone in the middle allowing the wort to be carefully drained without the need to filter at all. (you do lose a bit of wort though as the cone flattens out at the end of the drain.
On my smaller boiler (narrower Klarstein) I cannot achieve the cone as the boiler is too narrow. Instead I use a Trub Trapper (TrübTrapper) that sits on the floor of the boiler (you cant use this if you have protruding elements). I gentle stir at the end of the boils and the majority of the hop debris sits inside the Trub Trapper. You do get a bit around the edges but this is easily dealt with when the tap is first opened.
Failing the above you could filter through the hop spider, although it may need clearing out at regular intervals.