Hop change, Mangrove Jacks Baltic Porter

[Northern_Brewer]

This. I’m new at this so probably didn’t explain myself too well. The pale rider/Jaipur were mentioned as the type of bitterness I might look for in my brew

When you say the "type" of bitterness, are you just talking about the "amount" of bitterness or its "quality"? Different hops can produce different quality of bittering, from the raspiness of Target to the smooth bittering of something like Magnum.

It sounds like you just want a bit more apparent bitterness? Which is a bit more complex than just increasing IBUs as eg a high-gravity beer will "soak up" bittering units and appear a lot less bitter than a weaker beer with the same - or even less - IBUs. See this article for an introduction to the idea of BU:GU :
https://blog.homebrewing.org/bu-gu-ratio/

I was wondering if I could achieve something more bitter with my Porter by dry hopping.

Bitterness comes from various forms of alpha acids in hops. Boiling hops causes their alpha acids to undergo a chemical rearrangement called isomerisation which increases their bitterness 10x - so typically that's the limiting factor on how long you boil an all-grain brew, it takes about 60 minutes for the alpha acids to fully isomerise. So primarily if you're looking to add bitterness you are looking at isomerised alpha acids - either from boiling hops after the mash, from boiling hops on their own as a hop tea, or by buying commercial isomerised hop extract.

Dry hops can contribute bitterness via oxidised alpha acids called humulinones which have about 2/3 the bitterness of isomerised alpha acids. However you only benefit from this if the beer is not very bitter - eg a NEIPA. If the beer already has a lot of alpha acids, they adsorb onto the dry hops, so you lose alpha acids during dry hopping even while gaining humulinones.

TLDR - forget adding bitterness via dry hopping, you need isomerised alpha acids from boiling hops or isomerised hop extract.

 

[matt.]

Interesting points here
Many thanks
LDR - forget adding bitterness via dry hopping, you need isomerised alpha acids from boiling hops or isomerised hop extract.
So dry hopping is for aroma?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So dry hopping is for aroma?

In short - yes.

In a bit longer - if a molecule is volatile enough to reach your nose and thus contribute to the smell of your beer, then it will generally have a low boiling point, often less than 50°C. So you can have hops that are stuffed full of volatile "smell" compounds but if you boil them, they will all boil off in the kettle and there will be none left in the wort. At the other extreme, there are compounds like alpha acids that need the action of extended periods of heat to turn them into the desired flavour compounds (in that case, they need at least 80°C to isomerise into the bitter form), and compounds that need an intermediate amount of heat just to release them from the hops (typically terpenols etc contributing floral/citrus flavours).

So using the brewing convention of minutes before the end of the boil, at a first approximation it looks something like :

additions at 30+ minutes are for bittering
additions from about 10 minutes through flameout to whirlpool at 60-80°C are for flavour
Dry hops are for aroma

It's a lot more complicated than that, obviously flavour and aroma are intimately entwined. But that simple view works for your purposes.

 

[Dan.]

When you say the "type" of bitterness, are you just talking about the "amount" of bitterness or its "quality"? Different hops can produce different quality of bittering, from the raspiness of Target to the smooth bittering of something like Magnum.

It sounds like you just want a bit more apparent bitterness? Which is a bit more complex than just increasing IBUs as eg a high-gravity beer will "soak up" bittering units and appear a lot less bitter than a weaker beer with the same - or even less - IBUs. See this article for an introduction to the idea of BU:GU :
https://blog.homebrewing.org/bu-gu-ratio/
Bitterness comes from various forms of alpha acids in hops. Boiling hops causes their alpha acids to undergo a chemical rearrangement called isomerisation which increases their bitterness 10x - so typically that's the limiting factor on how long you boil an all-grain brew, it takes about 60 minutes for the alpha acids to fully isomerise. So primarily if you're looking to add bitterness you are looking at isomerised alpha acids - either from boiling hops after the mash, from boiling hops on their own as a hop tea, or by buying commercial isomerised hop extract.

Dry hops can contribute bitterness via oxidised alpha acids called humulinones which have about 2/3 the bitterness of isomerised alpha acids. However you only benefit from this if the beer is not very bitter - eg a NEIPA. If the beer already has a lot of alpha acids, they adsorb onto the dry hops, so you lose alpha acids during dry hopping even while gaining humulinones.

TLDR - forget adding bitterness via dry hopping, you need isomerised alpha acids from boiling hops or isomerised hop extract.

Thanks for this, I’ll just enjoy the beer as it is!

 

[dad_of_jon]

Hi All, my first post here.
I recently brewed a Mangrove Jacks Baltic Porter. It’s come ok but quite sweet & not as ‘bitter’ as I would like.
Can anyone recommend a hop substitution for the Styrian Goldings the kit comes with that would accomplish this, assuming this is possible?
Thanks, Dan.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/2008/09/14/hops-alpha-acid-table/ you probably need something in the 8-10% range and use brewing software to tell you how many IBU's a hop tea/ or boil would add.

It's also possible the yeast have not munched as much of the sugars as you'd like, so a yeast change is another route. BUT seeing as this is a kit I'd suggest just changing the hopping first and if still too sweet, then change the yeast. It's possible the beer hadn't finished fermenting. what was your FG?