Homebrew expectations vs. commercial beer

[trueblue]

It seems like no single judge can judge a single beer..perhaps individual masters should be involved at high level competition..

When I was a judges steward the judges would quite often ask a fellow judge to sample a beer if he wanted a second opinion. Brewcon does have 2 judges for each category/beer.
A few years back I entered 2 competitions a few weeks apart the first one, the London amature brewers, got a great review and although it did not place it did receive a commendation and was rated as a good example of is class. Two weeks later at one of the festivals the same beer got a terrible review. As any one who has attended these competitions would know once the judging is over us mere mortals can sample the entries and I always make a point of finding the bottle the judges sampled from, for my own QC purposes, and to my untrained pallet I could taste no difference in the two.

 

[Clint]

Truly a tough subject...

 

[strange-steve]

I've stewarded a few BJCP competitions and it's a great experience. I was able to sit at the table with the judges and taste the beers along with them and I learned a lot from it. I'd definitely recommend to any brewer volunteering as a steward at a competition.

 

[trueblue]

I've stewarded a few BJCP competitions and it's a great experience. I was able to sit at the table with the judges and taste the beers along with them and I learned a lot from it. I'd definitely recommend to any brewer volunteering as a steward at a competition.

Could not agree more. The ones I was with would point out things to me as we tasted and would even ask for my opinion. I did let them know before the judging started I had a beer in that class but would only reveal my entry at the end and when I did reveal they spent a bit of time taking me through how they thought I could improve, I did not win.

 

[foxy]

Entering competitions is the best place to get your beer evaluated and having pointed out the faults which lost points, getting over 40 you are doing well getting over 45 points is doing exceedingly well. Doesn't have to be to your liking, but BJCP style. Commercial breweries may well employ highly skilled microbiologists and other scientific related employees but they are still brewing to a budget so that evens the playing field with home brewers somewhat. Can we do better than commercials I think so, do I give beer I have brewed for myself away? Not if I can help it, but beers I have brewed for a comp I give away, often the AIPA's

 

[SmokinMesa]

I tried cheap kits some 25 years ago when a teenager and they were, well absolutely horrific.

Recently have been inspired by a post on here about a simple AG SMaSH so gave it a go. I gave a bottle of my first attempt to my brother and he said if I hadn't told him I made it he wouldn't have known. He doesn't have an acquired taste though. I've been drinking pretty much exclusively Punk (everyday) for months so have become very familiar and happy with this profile, so it didn't taste amazing to me. However after a few bottles it started tasting.....OK.

I'm now on my second batch, which I went a bit off piste with and used two grains and multiple hops. This one is much darker, bit better carbonation and fuller body. It tasted alright, I dry hopped this one a lot more but think I still used way to few hops for what I'm after (a modern WestCoast style fruity IPA). Last night watching the footy, after a few days of no Punk, I had a few bottles and chilled down tasted pretty ok. Still a bit bitter for my tastes.

I've got another batch in bottles priming and another two two "small batch" in primary.

Keep going. Remember, if you doing exactly the same thing you should expect the same results. Experiment, find new recipes, new hops, different yeasts, temps, times.

Enjoy!

 

[Keruso]

Commercial beers vary dramatically. It is subjective, we don't all hold the same opinions on what a decent commercial brew is either. As I’m an IPA fan, I recently tried a BrewDog Punk IPA having not had one for many years, I thought it was utterly foul and poured it down the sink. Others think it’s great. I've been brewing for about three years, and very rarely buy beer unless it's something special. I started home brewing because the only beers I liked and purchased were from craft breweries, found in a local specialist beer shop, paying at least £6 a can often a lot more. So, I did a brew day at my LHBS, 1st brew was a Cloudwater DIPA clone. I was hooked.
I am now making beer that can meet, sometimes exceed the commercial beer I once purchased. Not always though, sometimes I am disappointed too, but it is not costing anywhere near £6 for two thirds of a pint.
It is very satisfying to make a beer to a standard that impresses me now, but from my experience it requires a necessary foundation, that is using all-grain, liquid yeast when necessary, temperature-controlled fermentation, allowing enough carbonation and conditioning time, corny kegs and kegerator (home-made) to serve.
I have not found the need for conical fermenters, closed transfers etc yet.

 

[obscure]

Commercial beers vary dramatically. It is subjective, we don't all hold the same opinions on what a decent commercial brew is either. As I’m an IPA fan, I recently tried a BrewDog Punk IPA having not had one for many years, I thought it was utterly foul and poured it down the sink.

Each to their own, while Punk IPA wouldn’t be my first choice, its still often the best option in certain bars where the other options are Stella or Becks (case it point where my company had its last Christmas party, a ten page wine list, half a dozen different gins, but as for beer your choice was moretti, becks or punk.

 

[Keruso]

Each to their own, while Punk IPA wouldn’t be my first choice, its still often the best option in certain bars where the other options are Stella or Becks (case it point where my company had its last Christmas party, a ten page wine list, half a dozen different gins, but as for beer your choice was moretti, becks or punk.

Yep you’re right, offen the least worse, but we all have different tastes.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I would say to the less experienced brewer try different recipes then try to perfect one you like. Write things down & once you've get there you will realise what it takes to make good beer full stop. In my early days Id even tipped full batches down the sink that didn't improve with age. It seems a shame but you are supposed to enjoy your beer not suffer it.
I now pretty much stick to my own IPA recipe & method & get over 95% of beer I'm really happy with. But to someone else it might taste rubbish. I believe if you chop & change too much the end result is more of a gamble.
Also I've perfected supermarket apple juice cider that is never disappointing it may sometimes have a slightly different flavour but it's always good to drink without the use of any sulphates which I seem allergic to.

 

[strange-steve]

it's always good to drink without the use of any sulphates which I seem allergic to

It's probably sulphites you're allergic to, in which case I would be careful around Campden tablets.

 

[obscure]

In my early days Id even tipped full batches down the sink that didn't improve with age. It seems a shame but you are supposed to enjoy your beer not suffer it.

This is one thing I found hard to do the first time but I think it is important to be able to know when a beer is not going to get any better, and sometimes the best place for your beer is straight down the sink.

 

[kelper]

My Belgian pale ale kit has gone down the drain just now. After four weeks conditioning in a pressure barrel it was flat, orange and cloudy. It had a horrible estery smell. First beer I have ever 'lost'.

 

[gingerneil]

Going back to the OP's question - can you brew a beer that rivals a commercial pint....
I'm only on my 8th kit, after a 20 gap since some absolute horror shows at Uni! I can firmly say that YES - I sure can brew a pint that is better than a fair few dull tins that you find in the supermarket (subjective, to my taste, obviously). I have worked through a fair number of the Mangrove Jacks Craft IPA/Pils kits, and have been very impressed with the results. I am far from an expert, these are kits after all so I'm really just mixing some stuff together and being patient. However, I am now very very rarely buying beer - and only do so when I want something for a change or that I have nothing close to in the stash.
Could I do it from grain... who knows. But I'm finding it almost too easy to brew good beer with these kits - again, to my taste anyway!

 

[pms67]

Commercial beers vary dramatically. It is subjective, we don't all hold the same opinions on what a decent commercial brew is either. As I’m an IPA fan, I recently tried a BrewDog Punk IPA having not had one for many years, I thought it was utterly foul and poured it down the sink. Others think it’s great. I've been brewing for about three years, and very rarely buy beer unless it's something special. I started home brewing because the only beers I liked and purchased were from craft breweries, found in a local specialist beer shop, paying at least £6 a can often a lot more. So, I did a brew day at my LHBS, 1st brew was a Cloudwater DIPA clone. I was hooked.
I am now making beer that can meet, sometimes exceed the commercial beer I once purchased. Not always though, sometimes I am disappointed too, but it is not costing anywhere near £6 for two thirds of a pint.
It is very satisfying to make a beer to a standard that impresses me now, but from my experience it requires a necessary foundation, that is using all-grain, liquid yeast when necessary, temperature-controlled fermentation, allowing enough carbonation and conditioning time, corny kegs and kegerator (home-made) to serve.
I have not found the need for conical fermenters, closed transfers etc yet.

Not too many people pour a Punk IPA away, it’s a decent session beer imo and the beer that introduced hundreds of thousands of people to beer that tastes of something other than nothing but as the saying goes it’s horses for courses

 

[Keruso]

Not too many people pour a Punk IPA away, it’s a decent session beer imo and the beer that introduced hundreds of thousands of people to beer that tastes of something other than nothing but as the saying goes it’s horses for courses

Sure is, I’m not criticizing Punk IPA, my dislike is a personal opinion.

 

[ChrisRedWills]

Someone made a comment in a recent post I wrote that really got me thinking - basically I was explaining how my attempts at homebrew were not going well, however, they asked if I was perhaps being unfair in my expectations if I thought I would be making commercial quality beer at this stage.

So I went out and bought a case of Brewdog (as it was the easiest to order and get delivered) and I must say, it really was some good beer, so I've been wondering: can a casual homebrewer ever expect to make a beer that is comparable in quality to these commercial craft beers, without having to invest in serious equipment that moves it out of being a fun hobby but to more of a full on passion project?

I suppose I'm just starting to think that there really is a big difference between the quality of beer a casual homebrewer can make vs. what can be bought, whereas, for lots of other things I can do for fun at home (i.e. baking, cooking, etc.), it is very much possible to equal the quality or even exceed the equivalent products that can be bought.

Now that I've been thinking about it more, I'm probably a bit less inclined to accept all the 'compromises' that seem to be the norm when casually homebrewing (cloudy beer, sediment, taste not quite right, etc.), given how much better (and easier) it seems a purchased craft beer can be.

Has anyone else thought about this and come to a different conclusion or decided to carry on regardless?

I love English beers, today I was fishing, I usually take a couple of stubby's to have after I wrap up, not far from where I fish there is a bottle o with a good supply of UK beers I would sooner wait the 30 minutes drive home to have a beer even though it has gone past 3 pm.

Its a hobby not a contest

 

[kelper]

if yer will's red, see a doc, Chris.

 

[trueblue]

Its a hobby not a contest

Quite right but competitions are a good way of getting feedback and constructive criticism to help you improve your hobby. And it feels bloody good if you win.

 

[An Ankoù]

When I was a judges steward the judges would quite often ask a fellow judge to sample a beer if he wanted a second opinion. Brewcon does have 2 judges for each category/beer.
A few years back I entered 2 competitions a few weeks apart the first one, the London amature brewers, got a great review and although it did not place it did receive a commendation and was rated as a good example of is class. Two weeks later at one of the festivals the same beer got a terrible review. As any one who has attended these competitions would know once the judging is over us mere mortals can sample the entries and I always make a point of finding the bottle the judges sampled from, for my own QC purposes, and to my untrained pallet I could taste no difference in the two.

Does anyone remember when Green King IPA won the CAMRA Beer of Britain award at the GBBF?
'nuff said.