Help with DMS / Diacetyl

[hoppyscotty]

I've had issues with hitting FG, sometimes over shooting and sometimes undershooting. I'm not convinced its yeast related....yeast can only feed on simple sugars and for any given OG you will have a blend of simple and complex sugars as dictated by your mash process and temperature control in your mash process. Once the simple sugars have been consumed by the yeast then fermentation stops at that FG irrespective of how high your OG was. So at the moment I'm focussing alot on my mash process...ensuring I have a good overflow established so I don't have wort sat on top of the grain bed that is cooling down, trying to ensure the temp control is as good as it can be. I'm even considering converting my Brewzilla temperature control into a RIMS system rather than the bottom heating element system that I find to be very variable and not very controllable leading to a temp gradient down the grain bed and variable extraction. I think the aspect ratio of the Brewzilla is not optimal...it really needs to be a short wide aspect ratio instead of the tall, thin shape.

Also I'm messing about with step mashes too, so a portion of the mash at lower temp before ramping up to try to control the mix of sugar type in the wort more accurately. Also now only use the 500w element during the mash and find that I get tighter control that way and its still good enough to heat up and maintain temperature...at least as well as I can tell from the display. To be fair in the BZ instructions it does say to only use the 500w element when the malt pipe is in situ, so sometimes pays to read the instructions.

But as for general process, I usually do leave the beer in the fermenter for a good week after fermentation has finished and before cold crashing to make sure any compounds are processed and for lagers ensure I do a decent diacetyl rest. Best to be safer than sorry with these things.

 

[foxy]

Well frankly now I'm a bit upset and very annoyed. I honestly don't think my Kolsch is gonna be good enough for the competition

It was supposed be 1.009 and has hit 1.000 - 100% attenuation when it's supposed to have 79.4%
It was supposed to be 4.7% and has hit 6%
Taken it way off style when the actual brewday went fantastically. Damn frustrating!

There must be wild yeast at play somewhere - even though the husband says he thought wild yeast were very slow and it can't have?

Anyway - I'm trying to work out the culprit and trying to fix. First job - my plate chiller. This is the one thing that you can't be 100% sure is perfectly clean. I'm current recirculating boiling water through it (several times) and then it's going in the oven for ten minutes, after which I'm gonna recirculate again. Everything else coldside is getting a milton soak before the next brewday.

Here is a pic of the culprit! I'm crashing it now for a week and then going to transfer it over and clear / carbonate. Hopefully it won't be a tipper in the end!

View attachment 64787

Its hard to describe flavours remotely but your pictures helped. I recently had one the same Going down to 1,000 FG is another clue it is I believe phenolic often described as medicinal, clove like and band aid. Because you say that you believe the taste is mouldy oranges could just be your perception.
It can be caused by speciality yeast used in the brew house or wild yeast also chlorophenol from tap water, but I would imagine you would treat your tap water. Mine got infected through the blow off tube and overuse of the sanitiser in the bottle.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Its hard to describe flavours remotely but your pictures helped. I recently had one the same Going down to 1,000 FG is another clue it is I believe phenolic often described as medicinal, clove like and band aid. Because you say that you believe the taste is mouldy oranges could just be your perception.
It can be caused by speciality yeast used in the brew house or wild yeast also chlorophenol from tap water, but I would imagine you would treat your tap water. Mine got infected through the blow off tube and overuse of the sanitiser in the bottle.

Thanks for that, very helpful.

I suppose it's possible I didn't rinse the PBW off properly. It tends to cling to the plastic and you can't exactly use boiling water in the Fermzillas.

I use 100% bottled water so don't need campden, but yes I do treat my water according to Brewfather instructions.

I have a G40 arriving tomorrow so that'll help if it's the Brewzillas or the plate chiller's fault, but they had a deep clean yesterday.

 

[Leon103]

Sorry to hear about your beer. Before you mentioned the low gravity I was going to recommend always using 2 packs of yeast. Of course they will say one is ok but you don't want stressed fermentation.

I would get some sodium percarbonate and give everything a proper wash and then use starsan. I choose not to get a plate chiller for concerns over cleaning.

 

[foxy]

Thanks for that, very helpful.

I suppose it's possible I didn't rinse the PBW off properly. It tends to cling to the plastic and you can't exactly use boiling water in the Fermzillas.

I use 100% bottled water so don't need campden, but yes I do treat my water according to Brewfather instructions.

I have a G40 arriving tomorrow so that'll help if it's the Brewzillas or the plate chiller's fault, but they had a deep clean yesterday.

Just really referring to a campden tablet if you used tap water. You say you didn't rinse the PBW, did you use a sanitiser afterwards?
I have had three losses recently due to a she'll be right mate attitude. The other two I used my ready mixed sanitiser for too long. I can tell now from the smell in the fermenting room that a brew has gone **** up.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Just really referring to a campden tablet if you used tap water. You say you didn't rinse the PBW, did you use a sanitiser afterwards?
I have had three losses recently due to a she'll be right mate attitude. The other two I used my ready mixed sanitiser for too long. I can tell now from the smell in the fermenting room that a brew has gone **** up.

I did rinse the PBW, just not with boiling water due to the plastic. Maybe 40C. Yes I always use chemsan, but hate it. Going back to Starsan.

Know what you mean about the fermentation smell.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Sorry to hear about your beer. Before you mentioned the low gravity I was going to recommend always using 2 packs of yeast. Of course they will say one is ok but you don't want stressed fermentation.

I would get some sodium percarbonate and give everything a proper wash and then use starsan. I choose not to get a plate chiller for concerns over cleaning.

Thanks Leon.

PBW is sodium percarbonate isn't it? Always use that and chemsan after.

 

[foxy]

PBW is mainly sodium perc, I use sodium perborate as I buy in bulk. (sodium perc is unstable in bulk) doesn't matter about the temperature of the water, fill with cold water and add the PBW in a cup of hot/boiled water, as long as it is dissolved it will work.

 

[Leon103]

Thanks Leon.

PBW is sodium percarbonate isn't it? Always use that and chemsan after.

It contains some but isn't pure. Also contains a number of other stuff.
Pure SB is the best thing I have used to clean.

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Sometimes I use that to clean out my fridge. Will give it a go.

 

[Leon103]

Sometimes I use that to clean out my fridge. Will give it a go.

I use it on loads of things. Its really good for cleaning the glass on my log burner

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

I use it on loads of things. Its really good for cleaning the glass on my log burner

Good idea. I use the ash for mine, but it's dirty and messy.

 

[Leon103]

Good idea. I use the ash for mine, but it's dirty and messy.

I put half a tea spoon with very hot water in a sprayer. Put newspaper under the doors and give it a good spray. Most of it runs off with some bits needing a scrub.

 

[foxy]

If you want to make your own alkaline cleaner in small amount's 2-5 kg use 4 parts sodium perc to one part trisodium phosphate. if you cant get tsp-pf (phosphate free) don't tip it down the sink dilute further and put it on the garden.

 

[Clint]

Most importantly Lisa...don't let it get you down...its only beer.
And...if its not got mushrooms in it,you can drink it.

 

[Fezzer]

I use a purple beer line cleaner cheap enough for 5 litre, turns blue, green when it's in contact with bacteria. Once that's all running purple I use starsan, just before beer touches it then.

 

[DocAnna]

I have a G40 arriving tomorrow so that'll help if it's the Brewzillas or the plate chiller's fault, but they had a deep clean yesterday.

Gosh that news was slipped in there unless I've missed it elsewhere! Happy new shiny equipment day

 

[Tess Tickle's Brewery]

Thanks Anna. I did mention it elsewhere but got told I 'can't hide my cash'. How vulgar!

Couldn't be further from the truth - we are broke but I've been saving for it ha ha!