Help please

[Quo]

ive had a bit of a bad morning. Started to rack 23 litres of Pinot Grigio. My auto siphon seal is damaged and drew in a lot of air. I’m bothered I’ve put a lot of oxygen in. Also I’m not quite up to the shoulder on a 23 litre dj. I messed the last bit and have a few litres in bucket with lots of sediment.
Would you put this in or maybe put in another small dj and add when cleared a bit.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I have read that these auto siphones can be a bit of a pain i use a standard one with an extended cane and its fine.

I wouldn't worry about the the auto siphon leak my racking technique used to be laughable and i never had a wine go bad.

You say a few litres how many do you think is left?

 

[Quo]

Thanks for reply. Reckon there’s a good 2 litres. I have put in smaller dj so I could clean out bucket.

 

[LED_ZEP]

Have you racked to clear or is the wine still fermenting?

If you've racked to clear one of the additives you normally get in kits is potassium metabisulfite (campden tablets) often labelled stabiliser. This is a preservative that will help prevent your wine becoming infected. Also there will be a small amount of CO2 gas being released from the wine so I wouldn't worry about a gap at the top of your dj.

If it's still fermenting then again there will be carbon dioxide (CO2) given off that will fill the gap in your dj so again no need to worry.

Don't forget the alcohol level in the wine will also kill many nasty bugs and infections.

 

[Quo]

It is a kit. It started at 1100 and after 9 days is 1002. It says to rack into 23 litre carboy leaving about 1 litre space. Leave for another 10 days.
It has started bubbling again. About every 10 seconds.
Hopefully it’ll be alright.
Started day badly and just been told it’s salad for tea. Thought things would get better.:thumbd:

 

[LED_ZEP]

Started day badly and just been told it’s salad for tea. Thought things would get better.:thumbd:

I had a full English salad this morning: Bacon, sausage, egg, mushrooms, tomatoes and toast (it's healthier than fried bread and I like to eat healthily).

 

[Quo]

I Know what I’m having tomorrow. Best thing is wine seems ok. Worst nightmare is thought of much loved vino going down the drain.

 

[2131tom]

I'd agree with LED_ZEP that a bit of atmospheric oxygen at this stage of the process shouldn't harm.

On the racking: If you haven't stabilised the wine at 1002, a lot of yeast would be floating around anyway, so the clarity won't be that good at this stage.

I'd be inclined to put your 2 litres in with the main lot now to keep it all together and let all the sediment be removed during the racking you'll carry out after stabilisation and any finings you'll be adding have done their work.

 

[Quo]

Thanks for that. I have now put it in with the rest and it’s merrily bubbling away.
Fixed my auto siphon, I must have trapped it somehow as the seal had a flat. Put o ring in it and seems fine.
This morning the siphoning was like a jacuzzi.

 

[2131tom]

I see you've reached 1002. When does the kit instructions say to stabilise (i.e. stop any further fermentation by killing/inhibiting the yeast)?

Some I've seen say you should do an open (primary) fermentation down to SG 1020 (ish), then rack and put into a closed container with a bubbler, to carry on with the secondary (anaerobic) fermentation until you've reached your final SG.

At that stage you add the stabiliser, leave for a day or so, de-gas the wine and then add the finings, before racking a few days after that.

That methodology has changed from what it was over the years (at one time, all home winemakers were told to use closed demijohns from the start). The primary/secondary method certainly works for me, but I think there are plenty of variations that can work equally well.

 

[LED_ZEP]

Some I've seen say you should do an open (primary) fermentation down to SG 1020 (ish), then rack and put into a closed container with a bubbler, to carry on with the secondary (anaerobic) fermentation until you've reached your final SG

I normally just ferment in an open fv till it stops (or is stopped for a sweeter wine) and then into a pressure barrel to clear. The exception to this is if it's a slow ferment and I have fruit in the FV. In this case I will normally syphon off to a second fv. after around 7-8 days to leave the fruit behind, and then into the barrel when fermentation is finished. The good thing about using a pressure barrel is if it's not stopped fermenting the valve will allow excess pressure out, I'll often just leave it in there for a month or so till I'm ready to bottle.

 

[Quo]

I see you've reached 1002. When does the kit instructions say to stabilise (i.e. stop any further fermentation by killing/inhibiting the yeast)?

Some I've seen say you should do an open (primary) fermentation down to SG 1020 (ish), then rack and put into a closed container with a bubbler, to carry on with the secondary (anaerobic) fermentation until you've reached your final SG.

At that stage you add the stabiliser, leave for a day or so, de-gas the wine and then add the finings, before racking a few days after that.

That methodology has changed from what it was over the years (at one time, all home winemakers were told to use closed demijohns from the start). The primary/secondary method certainly works for me, but I think there are plenty of variations that can work equally well.

The instructions say after 7 days, check to see if the sg is 1010 or less.
Rack into clean carboy. Leave in carboy at 22-24c for 1o days.
After 10 days sg should be 0.996 or less.
Add meta bisulphate and sorbate.
It actually says do not rack as this kit requires that you stir the sediment back into suspension.
Also asks for degassing.
Add finings and leave 14 days. Before bottling.
It’s a World vineyard Vintners reserve Pinot Grigio.

 

[2131tom]

The instructions say after 7 days, check to see if the sg is 1010 or less.
Rack into clean carboy. Leave in carboy at 22-24c for 1o days.
After 10 days sg should be 0.996 or less.
Add meta bisulphate and sorbate.
It actually says do not rack as this kit requires that you stir the sediment back into suspension.
Also asks for degassing.
Add finings and leave 14 days. Before bottling.
It’s a World vineyard Vintners reserve Pinot Grigio.

Thanks for that.

The way I read it (others may have their own comments to make) :

1. At SG 1010 or less you should transfer to a closed vessel (they call it a carboy) with an airlock, to let it continue to ferment (a 'secondary fermentation') away from the presence of air. At that stage the manufacturer wants sediment to transfer across to the closed vessel because the fermentation is still continuing towards a final SG of 0.996 or less and much of the sediment will be yeast.

2. During this time, the fermentation will also continue to produce CO2 gas, which you'll see bubbling out of the airlock, but it will gradually reduce towards the end of the process. When it gets to (say) a bubble only every 90 seconds or so, it's going to be getting towards the final SG. At that stage, the yeast is running out of sugar and/or is being inhibited by the accumulation of alcohol.

3. You then check the SG. If it is 0.996 or less the wine is pretty much 'dry' but there's still sugar and live yeast in it, which you'll stop fermenting further by adding the sorbate and (to act as a preservative) the metabisulphite.

4. After this (usually just before you add the finings), you should 'de-gas' the wine to remove as much of the dissolved CO2 left over from fermentation as possible. This is done by vigorously stirring, or otherwise agitating, the wine until it goes 'flat'. Some people have special whisk attachments to their electric drills for this and others will spend up to 30 mins stirring the wine. I've generally found that five minutes strongly stirring alternately one way then the other is enough. De-gassing is supposed to help with fining the wine. It never used to be done but I've adopted the practice and it does make sense to do it.

5. Some kits then ask you to add the finings straight away, others a day or so later. Depending on the reagents the manufacturer has provided, fining may be in one or two stages (sometimes even 3), with time between each stage, to allow that stage to work. The effect of finings is to cause suspended material to fall to the bottom of the container and leave clear wine above it. The way this is achieved varies, depending on the type of fining being used, but clarity should occur 2-7 days later (your kit manufacturer says 14 days), provided the wine has been left alone in a cool place. If it's still hazy after a couple of weeks, further fining may be needed, but I've rarely had this problem.

6. Your wine should then be 'racked' (i.e. be removed from any sediment) by being carefully syphoned off into a closed container (still under an airlock, though) or directly into bottles. At that stage it's fairly important not to bring over any more sediment than you can avoid, although transferring a little is not fatal and some wine will 'drop' sediment (tannins etc.) weeks or even months after bottling, which can be unsettling when you come to open them. Other things might precipitate out as well, though not to cause any problems - one of my grape whites has just dropped crystals of 'struvite' which look like small glass needles and, though totally harmless, look pretty scary if you don't know what they are.

Hope that helps. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Quo]

Many thanks for that. It helps a lot to understand the processes.
Just one question. After degassing and fining, it says to rack and leave for 14 days to clear, after which it will be ready for bottling.
I’m guessing that the last racking won’t fill the carboy. 23ltr. Should I be bothered about having the air gap. I’ve heard of topping up with shop bought bottles of the same variety.

 

[2131tom]

The way I read it (and this follows normal practice), after degassing and adding the finings you'd leave for a period to allow the finings to work and the sediment to settle out - in your case it appears to be 14 days. Other kits specify less, but 14 days isn't excessively long.

THEN (and only then) you'd rack the wine - either into another cleaned and sterilised bulk container, or directly into your cleaned and sterilised wine bottles, ready for ageing/storage. That racking is to get rid of as much sediment as you can, as it gets in the way when you come to pour the wine for drinking but (more importantly) sediment (dead yeast cells, organic matter etc.) if left in wine can cause off-flavours over time.

I've never worried about the air gap spoiling my wine. If you think about it, all bottled wines have an air gap in the bottle, (if they didn't they would probably burst the bottles or pop the corks, as the storage temperature fluctuates (air's compressible; liquid isn't). Also, the amount of O2 in the air gap is relatively small in comparison to the volume of the wine, so oxidation isn't a great concern. Finally, however well you think you've degassed, a small amount of CO2 will still be contained in the wine when it's bottled and this will come into the air gap over time.

If you're bulk storing, the same reasoning applies. Added to that, on racking you'll not lose much of the 23l of liquid you started fermenting with and that will pretty much fill a normal FV (it does mine, anyway), so it's not as though you're storing a few drops in a ten-gallon barrel which then mostly contains air.

If you're storing prior to bottling a few days later, that's a negligible delay; if you intend to leave it in the carboy to mature (and lots of people do), the storage shouldn't cause problems, but I'd be wary of ad-hoc drawing off to drink small amounts over a prolonged period, as that will introduce increasingly more O2 into a diminishing amount of wine over a long period of time. That might cause oxidation etc. problems with the last of the batch.

 

[Pedro Dominguez Rodriguez]

Hi, I'm Spanish and I'm sorry if the translator makes mistakes. If you keep bubbling, you should always wait for the fermentation to stop. Someday the yeast will not have sugar to eat. One day I made a chardonnay that I ferment for a long time to take it to the bottling adding 3 gr. of sugar per bottle of 75 cl of champagne using champagne method and bottles of pressure cava. 6 months later I got a very generous 17 degree cellar. an idea to recover it.

 

[Quo]

Hi Pedro, thanks for the reply. The Chardonnay sparkling sounds wonderful. I’d like to try that one day. How do you keep control of the fermentation temperature in Spain. Guess it’s quite a bit warmer than here.

 

[Pedro Dominguez Rodriguez]

Here in spain from spring to autumn is easy. There are some for maintain the temperature in the dj, some like warms belts for dj
The two firts images.

 

[Pedro Dominguez Rodriguez]

http://s.aliexpress.com/INZN3qmM?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard

In the link you have one belts for dj fermentations.

 

[Quo]

Hello Pedro, thanks for that. I do have a belt but only large enough for Demi John. Do you use wine kits or your own ingredients. Just wondered if you made the likes of elderflower and other ‘country wines’ .