Hear me out...

[NPi]

Nitrogen wheat beer.

I could be wrong (small minded and poorly travelled), but I've not seen any other style of beer use nitrogen commercially. Surely a nice full feeling wheat beer or pale would work? Would it not add to the juicy, chewy texture of a NEIPA?

 

[MickDundee]

Wheat beers are usually highly carbonated so I would think a nitrogen one would just feel wrong.

 

[An Ankoù]

Guinness do a nitro IPA called "Nitro IPA". It's not very good, in fact it's carp. Bit that's because the beer's poor, not necessarily the fault of the nitro.
Might be fobbing issues with wheat beer, but go for it. Only one way to find out and push forward the boundaries of brewing science.

 

[Deadhead]

Why don't you try and report back?

 

[Leon103]

Loads of styles have been tried with nitrogen. I have been had a neipa with it. I think it was made by brewdog. It didn't add anything and the beer wasn't that good.

 

[NPi]

If I had gas I would. Or should I say if I had kegs I would, the wife can confirm I have gas.

I may try doing a wheat and an IPA through a hand pull though, I just think that fluffy cloud mouthfeel is missing in my beers at the moment.

 

[Leon103]

If I had gas I would. Or should I say if I had kegs I would, the wife can confirm I have gas.

I may try doing a wheat and an IPA through a hand pull though, I just think that fluffy cloud mouthfeel is missing in my beers at the moment.

Why don't you look at your recipe building to get what you want?

 

[Sadfield]

Often overlooked, but Co2 is more than just fizz. It adds a sharpness to the taste.

 

[NPi]

H

Why don't you look at your recipe building to get what you want?

How would you alter a wheat beer recipe for better mouthfeel? I've adjusted the water chemistry, even bunged in a bit of carafoam for extra head retention

 

[NPi]

Often overlooked, but Co2 is more than just fizz. It adds a sharpness to the taste.

According to totally unsubstantiated claims on Google, nitrogen dulls bitterness (good for a wheat beer and NEIPA), assentuates malt (good for wheat and NEIPA) and gives a fuller mouthfeel (good for... You get the idea)

Maybe I can convert one of the Malty Coloured Swap Shop to give it a try.

 

[thegrantickle]

So, let's talk about why nitro exists...

Nitro exists as a way to emulate the pour from a beer engine, without introducing oxygen into the beer, and spoiling it/shortening the shelf life. Guinness invented nitro for this very reason.

In air, we have roughly 78% Nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Those numbers will be relatively familiar... most Nitro gas tanks are actually 70% nitrogen and 30% CO2. All they've done is simplify it, remove the oxygen and replace with CO2 which as you know does not spoil the beer (oxidation).

In beer, CO2 bubbles rise to the top whereas nitrogen bubbles fall to the bottom when knocked out of solution in the beer by a restrictor (aka creamer) plate in the spout - this difference is what causes the cascading effect. In Cask beer, the mixed gasses (i.e. O2 etc) rise to the top and cause this when knocked out of solution in the beer by the force of the pump and/or a sparkler nozzle.

So, now that we know that, think about all the beer styles that taste great on a cask... it should work pretty good on nitro too. John Smiths/Belhaven Best are examples of best bitters which are now served on a nitro line (although usually this is 60/40 rather than 70/30, but has the same effect, as well as the restrictor plates being a little less restrictive...).

CO2, as someone mentioned above, adds pop/zing to the beer usually. It is useful for sending aromatics up to the head where the drinker can smell them. If you use nitro, it will keep more of those aromatic compounds in the beer, thus dulling some of the perceived aromas. For this reason, I wouldn't use nitro/cask for super hop-forward beers such as NEIPAs.

Hope this helps someone

 

[NPi]

So, let's talk about why nitro exists...

Nitro exists as a way to emulate the pour from a beer engine, without introducing oxygen into the beer, and spoiling it/shortening the shelf life. Guinness invented nitro for this very reason.

In air, we have roughly 78% Nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Those numbers will be relatively familiar... most Nitro gas tanks are actually 70% nitrogen and 30% CO2. All they've done is simplify it, remove the oxygen and replace with CO2 which as you know does not spoil the beer (oxidation).

In beer, CO2 bubbles rise to the top whereas nitrogen bubbles fall to the bottom when knocked out of solution in the beer by a restrictor (aka creamer) plate in the spout - this difference is what causes the cascading effect. In Cask beer, the mixed gasses (i.e. O2 etc) rise to the top and cause this when knocked out of solution in the beer by the force of the pump and/or a sparkler nozzle.

So, now that we know that, think about all the beer styles that taste great on a cask... it should work pretty good on nitro too. John Smiths/Belhaven Best are examples of best bitters which are now served on a nitro line (although usually this is 60/40 rather than 70/30, but has the same effect, as well as the restrictor plates being a little less restrictive...).

CO2, as someone mentioned above, adds pop/zing to the beer usually. It is useful for sending aromatics up to the head where the drinker can smell them. If you use nitro, it will keep more of those aromatic compounds in the beer, thus dulling some of the perceived aromas. For this reason, I wouldn't use nitro/cask for super hop-forward beers such as NEIPAs.

Hope this helps someone

Cheers Grant, I get it for NEIPA and any aromatic beers, but does that mean a Wheat beer would benefit from handpull? Either way I'm keen to explore it more.

I'm only so intruiged as I did the syringe to some wheat beer whilst I bottled it and it was great. Tasted like marshmallow clouds and pillows, it was great.

 

[thegrantickle]

Wh

Cheers Grant, I get it for NEIPA and any aromatic beers, but does that mean a Wheat beer would benefit from handpull? Either way I'm keen to explore it more.

I'm only so intruiged as I did the syringe to some wheat beer whilst I bottled it and it was great. Tasted like marshmallow clouds and pillows, it was great.

What beer would likely struggle too, as it's all about the aromatics coming from the esters of the yeast, really.

 

[Leon103]

H

How would you alter a wheat beer recipe for better mouthfeel? I've adjusted the water chemistry, even bunged in a bit of carafoam for extra head retention

Yeast choice, malt choice, water chemistry and mashing temp.

I don't think nitro adds anything to the mouth feel of a beer. Just tighter bubbles in the head.

 

[Obadiah Boondoggle]

Some years ago the people who market beer for commercial concerns introduced the idea of "smooth" beer - and you can still buy some beers as smooth "Tetleys"

As many things are in beer it was a gimmick to sell more beer

To my mind nitrogen creates a smooth feel in the mouth but at the expense of flavour

 

[phillc]

Wheat beer would likely struggle too, as it's all about the aromatics coming from the esters of the yeast, really.

Yes, and maybe. If you want bananas in your wheat beer, they are esters. If you want cloves, they are phenolics.

I agree that nitro would do the banana no favours. On the other hand, accentuating the cloves might work with nitro. Perhaps better tried with a Dunkelweizen or Weizenbock rather than a Hefeweizen.

Also might be best to choose a yeast that produces less esters and more phenolics, like Safale WB-06 perhaps, rather than Mangrove Jack's M20. And ferment at less than 20C.

 

[thegrantickle]

Yes, and maybe. If you want bananas in your wheat beer, they are esters. If you want cloves, they are phenolics.

I agree that nitro would do the banana no favours. On the other hand, accentuating the cloves might work with nitro. Perhaps better tried with a Dunkelweizen or Weizenbock rather than a Hefeweizen.

Also might be best to choose a yeast that produces less esters and more phenolics, like Safale WB-06 perhaps, rather than Mangrove Jack's M20, and ferment at less than 20C.

Good point, to be fair.

 

[Sadfield]

Yes, and maybe. If you want bananas in your wheat beer, they are esters. If you want cloves, they are phenolics.

I agree that nitro would do the banana no favours. On the other hand, accentuating the cloves might work with nitro. Perhaps better tried with a Dunkelweizen or Weizenbock rather than a Hefeweizen.

Also might be best to choose a yeast that produces less esters and more phenolics, like Safale WB-06 perhaps, rather than Mangrove Jack's M20. And ferment at less than 20C.

Fair point, although doing a ferulic acid rest, also would help boost 4VG in the final beer if clove is what one is after. Whatever, style and flavour profile desired, there is probably a multitude of easier ways to achieve it than swapping Nitro for CO2.

Would still be interested to hear the OP's findings with this experiment.

 

[phillc]

Whatever, style and flavour profile desired, there is probably a multitude of easier ways to achieve it than swapping Nitro for CO2.

Sure. My point was really that if experimenting with nitro in a wheat beer, it's probably better targeted at a more clove based style.

I am also very curious as to the outcome.

As I have an un-pressurised keg of hopefully clove forward Weizenbock maturing in the cellar, I'm now thinking about how I can get some nitro into it, rather than just CO2!

 

[NPi]

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm unlikely to be able to experiment with nitrogen any time soon. Wheat beer through a hand pull looks more likely, I just have to convince a hater of mass marketing to let me borrow his. @Obadiah Boondoggle