Have I done anything stupid?

[JebKerman]

Hi guys,

Looking to use up some of my freezer hops with a NEIPA in time for New Year.
I've come up with this for a 3 gallon batch. Have I missed anything or done anything daft... Bear in mind, these are all hops I have in my freezer only...

3kg pale ale malt
0.5kg flaked oats
0.5kg flaked wheat
0.2kg light brown sugar (10 minute boil addition)
10g Centennial (30 min)
17g Citra (flameout)
17g Cascade (flameout)
17g Cascade (7 day dry hop)
17g Citra (7 day dry hop)
8g Centennial (7 day dry hop)

US05 yeast

Thanks guys

 

[terrym]

Not enough bittering hops .
Assuming I've not got it wrong, I ran it through Brewers Friend and the IBUs were only 15 assuming pellets. Better, as an example, to use 25g Centennial (or IBU equivalent) for 60mins will give 50 IBUs, which, as I understand it, is more in keeping with the style. Upping the IBUs will mean you have to decrease the later hops to provide this or reduce the volume or buy a hop top-up. Others may able to advise better than me.

 

[JebKerman]

I can adjust when to add the centennial, that's not an issue.

I'll pop it through brewersfriend again and see what I can come up with although IIRC BF doesn't seem to recognise any IBUs after the boil

 

[MickDundee]

Not enough bittering hops .
Assuming I've not got it wrong, I ran it through Brewers Friend and the IBUs were only 15 assuming pellets. Better, as an example, to use 25g Centennial (or IBU equivalent) for 60mins will give 50 IBUs, which, as I understand it, is more in keeping with the style. Upping the IBUs will mean you have to decrease the later hops to provide this or reduce the volume or buy a hop top-up. Others may able to advise better than me.

New England IPAs are usually much less bitter than their West Coast counterparts though aren’t they? Generally <25IBUs IIRC and usually made with most, if not all, of the hops at flameout.

Totally agree about there not being enough hops. When I attempted an NEIPA I used 250g of hops and would probably go higher in future. You also want to do some of the dry hopping whilst fermentation is still active for an NEIPA.

The other thing is the yeast US-05 will give you a clean beer, and is probably fine, but NEIPAs want stone fruits to come through. If you don’t want to go liquid, Lallemand do a dry NEIPA yeast which I believe is now available in homebrew sized packs, alternatively some of the English fried yeasts impart stone fruits - I think I used MJ Empire Ale the first time.

 

[terrym]

I'll pop it through brewersfriend again and see what I can come up with although IIRC BF doesn't seem to recognise any IBUs after the boil

My understanding is that flame out and dry hops contribute very little in terms of bitterness so can be more or less discounted from adding IBUs.

 

[JebKerman]

Totally agree about there not being enough hops. When I attempted an NEIPA I used 250g of hops and would probably go higher in future. You also want to do some of the dry hopping whilst fermentation is still active for an NEIPA.

The other thing is the yeast US-05 will give you a clean beer, and is probably fine, but NEIPAs want stone fruits to come through. If you don’t want to go liquid, Lallemand do a dry NEIPA yeast which I believe is now available in homebrew sized packs, alternatively some of the English fried yeasts impart stone fruits - I think I used MJ Empire Ale the first time.

I might just chuck all the hops I have in in a dry hop then... I think I have about 50g of Citra and around the same of Cascade, hardly any Centennial left but I have a suspicion I have around 50g of Simcoe lurking in the freezer somewhere.

Cheers for the tip on the yeast. I haven't ordered the grain or yeast yet, so will see if GEB sell the MJ stuff. If I can't get that, would a Windsor or Nottingham yeast work?

 

[JebKerman]

My understanding is that flame out and dry hops contribute very little in terms of bitterness so can be more or less discounted from adding IBUs.

I can add the Cascade earlier in the boil for bittering, and see how we do

 

[MickDundee]

I might just chuck all the hops I have in in a dry hop then... I think I have about 50g of Citra and around the same of Cascade, hardly any Centennial left but I have a suspicion I have around 50g of Simcoe lurking in the freezer somewhere.

Cheers for the tip on the yeast. I haven't ordered the grain or yeast yet, so will see if GEB sell the MJ stuff. If I can't get that, would a Windsor or Nottingham yeast work?

GEB have the Lallemand New England yeast
https://www.geterbrewed.com/lalbrew-new-england-yeast-11g/

 

[JebKerman]

Cheers for that... It doesn't show on the custom kit options, but I'll get that ordered up to be brewed soon.

Just noticed your Saisons In The Abyss beer...
Is there a Cowboys From Helles is the offing soon?

 

[MickDundee]

Cheers for that... It doesn't show on the custom kit options, but I'll get that ordered up to be brewed soon.

Just noticed your Saisons In The Abyss beer...
Is there a Cowboys From Helles is the offing soon?

Perhaps once I get a brew fridge set up. I name all my brews after my music collection.

 

[JebKerman]

Perhaps once I get a brew fridge set up. I name all my brews after my music collection.

So, Helles Awaits might be more appropriate? :p

 

[MickDundee]

So, Helles Awaits might be more appropriate? :p

Or Highway to Helles

 

[Pavros]

My understanding is that flame out and dry hops contribute very little in terms of bitterness so can be more or less discounted from adding IBUs.

I think you are right when dealing with a 'normal' beer but I believe this style gets most of its IBUs from hops added at flameout and whirlpool and it's a reasonable amount of IBUs due to the shedload of hops that are used... I may be wrong and will wait for someone with more knowledge to correct this. I think they are more 'hopbombs' than 'bitternessbombs' though

 

[MickDundee]

@JebKerman I've just realised from accidentally clicking on your avatar that you’re from Carnoustie (although have a vague recollection of a similar conversation on here before). If you ever fancy a swap or need a hand with anything homebrew related, give me a shout - I’m in Monifieth.

 

[terrym]

I think you are right when dealing with a 'normal' beer but I believe this style gets most of its IBUs from hops added at flameout and whirlpool and it's a reasonable amount of IBUs due to the shedload of hops that are used... I may be wrong and will wait for someone with more knowledge to correct this. I think they are more 'hopbombs' than 'bitternessbombs' though

My (admittedly very limited knowledge) of NEIPAs is that whilst they have an abundance of hop flavours and aromas, they still have a medium bitterness relative to other beers. The NEIPAs I found on tinterweb had IBUs of the order of 40-50. I would be surprised if you could get that from very late additions but, like yourself, am always willing to listen and learn from other with a greater knowledge than myself

 

[Pavros]

I've just seen a recipe which has 45 IBUs and uses 9g of Magnum 14% at start of boil* and all other hops at flameout etc. BrewersFriend suggests that the 9g of Magnum gives 16.7 IBUs so the remaining 30 must come from the flameout and whirlpool hops. The recipe uses 18g at start of whirlpool, 57g 10 minutes into whirlpool and 84g at end of whirlpool, then massive amounts of dry hops at 3 stages during fermentation.

I think it's due to the amount of hops at flameout that they give much more IBUs than I would anticipate. Brewdog's Cybernaut (which they describe as a session NEIPA) has 30 IBUs.

*just noticed that the Magnum is a first wort hop not at start of boil so this will affect the IBU calculations a little, but the recipe uses no other hop additions until flameout!

 

[Leon103]

My understanding is that flame out and dry hops contribute very little in terms of bitterness so can be more or less discounted from adding IBUs.

Depends on the temperature of the wort

 

[Leon103]

I think you are looking at a West coast ipa rather than a neipa.

To make an neipa you will need more hops, less ibus and a 2nd dry hop - one after two days and another after or at the end of fermentation.

Nothing wrong with the recipe as it is though, it might not give you what you had in mind

 

[dan125]

After my first couple of attempts at this style I stopped using any hops during the boil - you do seem to get significant perceived bitterness at least from the whirlpool & dry hops.
In my latest effort I used 200g whirlpool hops at 75C and Beersmith reckons I'm getting about 20 IBUs out of these

 

[Martybhoy]

A lot of emphasis is placed on keeping exposure to air as low as possible.

Does any oxidation that occurs have an effect on flavour or is it just the appearance that suffers?