Has anyone harvested yeast from Duvel? What did it smell like?

[Simonh82]

Just asking if anyone has successfully cultured yeast from Duvel bottles? I'm in the process at the moment and I'm at the point were it is really starting to kick off but I'm worried it's picked up an infection.

I've just stepped it up to step 4, 1.5L of 1.035 wort and it is smelling very strongly. I'd say it is mostly Belgiany but there is a slight sharpness which could be an infection or could just be phenolic.

I've never brewed a Belgian beer before so I can't tell if it's normal smells for this yeast or something nasty.

I'm fermenting warm at 23.5oC to get things moving and as this yeast is happier at warmer temps. I wonder if the warm temperature could have led to the sharp smell.

I will sample the beer from this next step to taste if it's definitely gone but I'm hoping someone can reassure me that the Duvel strain can smell like this when fermenting.

 

[JapanBrew]

I don't know too much but when I researched I found some info that said Duvel kills the fermenting yeast and injects a different, weaker yeast for carbonation. I tried as well to collect but failed many times.
I could and probably am wrong, but isn't Duvel a Pilsner/ lager??? So at that high temp, you're stressing the yeast and or growing a different strain. Just my input.

 

[YeastFace]

Yes. I've successfully cultured from bottles and fermented with it twice. An Amber and a Belgian Golden Strong, which is finishing up at the moment.

Despite the word on the net about it being a different strain, I'm almost certain it's the primary strain. The wording in Brew Like A Monk (where the notion that it's a bottling strain comes from) is ambiguous at best.

As for the smell, spicy and a bit of honeyed pear. I also get a fair bit of sulphur, which matches up with the descriptions of the commercially-available strains.

 

[GHW]

Just asking if anyone has successfully cultured yeast from Duvel bottles? I'm in the process at the moment and I'm at the point were it is really starting to kick off but I'm worried it's picked up an infection.

I've just stepped it up to step 4, 1.5L of 1.035 wort and it is smelling very strongly. I'd say it is mostly Belgiany but there is a slight sharpness which could be an infection or could just be phenolic.

I've never brewed a Belgian beer before so I can't tell if it's normal smells for this yeast or something nasty.

I'm fermenting warm at 23.5oC to get things moving and as this yeast is happier at warmer temps. I wonder if the warm temperature could have led to the sharp smell.

I will sample the beer from this next step to taste if it's definitely gone but I'm hoping someone can reassure me that the Duvel strain can smell like this when fermenting.

Not used the duvel strain but when I used the wyeast high gravity Trappist it definitely had a sharp edge to it. similar to the wiestephaner Weiss yeast smell. That one was so funky I swore I must have an infection. It was fine.

I think it's characteristic of the style. If you're confident your sanitation was good for the starter then I'd go for it.

 

[Simonh82]

I don't know too much but when I researched I found some info that said Duvel kills the fermenting yeast and injects a different, weaker yeast for carbonation. I tried as well to collect but failed many times.
I could and probably am wrong, but isn't Duvel a Pilsner/ lager??? So at that high temp, you're stressing the yeast and or growing a different strain. Just my input.

They might use pilsner malt but it isn't a larger yeast. Larger yeasts are generally clean and neutral and ferment cool where as Belgian ale strains are strongly flavoured and ferment warm. The smell from the yeast is certainly similar to the normal beer but has this sharp tang to it. I know that a lot of people start Belgian beers cooler at ~19-20 degrees before letting them raise to 24-25 to get more flavour. I think if I started it warm I might produce too many strong phenols (i'm hoping that anyway).

 

[Simonh82]

Yes. I've successfully cultured from bottles and fermented with it twice. An Amber and a Belgian Golden Strong, which is finishing up at the moment.

Despite the word on the net about it being a different strain, I'm almost certain it's the primary strain. The wording in Brew Like A Monk (where the notion that it's a bottling strain comes from) is ambiguous at best.

As for the smell, spicy and a bit of honeyed pear. I also get a fair bit of sulphur, which matches up with the descriptions of the commercially-available strains.

I've not read brew like a monk but I'm sure the monks would be having palpitations at my Belgian IPA recipe. If I have luck with this, I might go back and have another go at a traditional Belgian ale.

There was definitely some sulphur to the smell. I'll see how it looks this evening.

 

[Simonh82]

I tasted the started today and it was really nice. I could almost imagine drinking it on a hot summer day without hops without hops. Definitely not sour or off.

I stepped it up again with another 2L of fresh wort and I've now got krausen coming out of the top of my 5L starter bottle.

 

[YeastFace]

I tasted my Belgian Golden Strong last night to see if the sulphur had gone. It has. Also there's no way this isn't the primary strain. I've not done a clone, but the typical Duvel characteristics are there.

Finished at 1.009, which is two gravity points lower than Beersmith gave for WY1388.

 

[Simonh82]

Yes, it's definitely the same flavour from the yeast.

It's made me realise how lightly hopped Duvel is. The starter doesn't taste that different from the real thing, although this is only about 2%, so isn't going to knock your socks off.

 

[foxbat]

Time for a bump for this thread. I've knocked up a Duvel clone recipe in Beersmith and have a couple of bottles of the real thing in the cupboard. The question is, do I culture up the yeast from a bottle or chicken out and use Wyeast 1388/WLP570? Not sure at this time.

 

[Simonh82]

I had no problem culturing it up, you just need enough time for multiple steps.

 

[chthon]

I had no problem culturing it up, you just need enough time for multiple steps.

And did you get a good fermentation? The experienced homebrewers on the Flemish and Dutch forums seem to take the stand that the yeast in the Duvel bottles is more a bottling yeast, perhaps derived from the real yeast, but nevertheless more selected for bottling, and also that they are really trying only to add the bare minimum necessary.

 

[Simonh82]

The yeast blew the airlock out and made a complete mess of my fermentation chamber if I remember correctly.

It took a beer from 1.057 to 1.008 in about a week.

 

[chthon]

Well, that seems to be the real deal then! Good to know. I am now culturing St.-Bernardus yeast, next year I will buy a couple of fresh Duvels and culture yeast from them.

 

[foxbat]

Good news that you're happy with it so I've decided to get a culture on. I've just put the dregs of a bottle into a first stage 200ml starter of 1.020 wort and got it on the stir plate in the brewfridge at 20C. Hopefully I'll get results in a couple of days.

 

[foxbat]

This yeast looks like an aggressive one. The 200ml 1.020 starter has got itself a nice little krausen. Never seen that happen before at stage 1.

 

[foxbat]

I stepped up the starter to 500ml/1.040 last night without bothering to decant and it's spinning away in the brewfridge. This was how the 200ml (plus beer) 1.020 first stage finished.

A very impressive first stage.

 

[foxbat]

I stopped the 500ml/1.040 step-up last night and left it to cool overnight. By this morning it looked like I had about the same amount of yeast on the bottom as you'd get from a pack of White Labs/Wyeast and it hadn't fully flocculated yet. I've put a final 1000ml/1.040 step-up into the fridge without decanting and will be pitching that into my inspired-by-Duvel recipe in a few days when GEB deliver the pilsner malt I need. I'm planning on this for a small 13 litre batch:

75% Pilsner malt
10% Torrified wheat
15% Dextrose (brewer's sugar)

10g Magnum @60 minutes
20g Saaz @15 minutes
1.065 SG, 7.7% ABV, 29 IBU.

 

[foxbat]

The yeast blew the airlock out and made a complete mess of my fermentation chamber if I remember correctly.

I can believe it. Just 4 hours in from pitching the 1000ml step up my 3 litre flask looks like this:

I'm going to have to go and lay down some cling film over the stir plate in case I get spillage overnight. Next time I'll set up a blowoff tube on the flask.

 

[foxbat]

Standing the stir plate in a frying pan and covering the top of the plate with cling film was a good idea it seems. This is what I woke up to this morning:

I'm not planning to attempt any kind of cleanup as the risk of infection is just too high. Instead I'll just pitch into the brew by pouring from the clean side of the flask.