Gypsum

[Jamie1983]

Im new to brewing and not sure about the use for gypsum. Im based in Ireland and using tap water. At the moment im brewing lager and stout. Im guessing the water should be simular in the UK. Should I use gypsum?

 

[Clint]

To begin using chems and salts to adjust your water you need to find out what your water profile is.
Look on the forum for strange Steve's basic guide to water treatment.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It depends - on your water and what beers you're making.

In the first instance, your water company should have a facility on their website to get a water report for your district - if you can post here what you calcium, sulphate, chloride and hardness/carbonate levels are, people can help you more.

In general, lagers generally need very lightly mineralised water (which means you need to eg dilute with low-mineral mineral water rather than add more minerals), stouts are much more forgiving.

Gypsum is calcium sulphate, so the choice to add it depends on whether your beer could do with more calcium and more sulphate. Ales typically want at least 100ppm calcium just for a healthy mash/fermentation/flocculation, on balance lagers can do with a bit less than that. Sulphate emphasises a minerally bitterness, which is why Burton became famouse for IPA as it has wells that go into gypsum-rich rocks with huge amounts of sulphate in them. But for stout you don't want that much, 150ppm sulphate is fine.

This is a good overview (note the headings on the final table are shifted one column over):
https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/resources/technical-articles/water-water-everywhere/

 

[Jamie1983]

It depends - on your water and what beers you're making.

In the first instance, your water company should have a facility on their website to get a water report for your district - if you can post here what you calcium, sulphate, chloride and hardness/carbonate levels are, people can help you more.

In general, lagers generally need very lightly mineralised water (which means you need to eg dilute with low-mineral mineral water rather than add more minerals), stouts are much more forgiving.

Gypsum is calcium sulphate, so the choice to add it depends on whether your beer could do with more calcium and more sulphate. Ales typically want at least 100ppm calcium just for a healthy mash/fermentation/flocculation, on balance lagers can do with a bit less than that. Sulphate emphasises a minerally bitterness, which is why Burton became famouse for IPA as it has wells that go into gypsum-rich rocks with huge amounts of sulphate in them. But for stout you don't want that much, 150ppm sulphate is fine.

This is a good overview (note the headings on the final table are shifted one column over):
https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/resources/technical-articles/water-water-everywhere/

https://www.water.ie/water-supply/water-quality/results/summary/Is this the right report?

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Start here: Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

 

[Gerryjo]

Im new to brewing and not sure about the use for gypsum. Im based in Ireland and using tap water. At the moment im brewing lager and stout. Im guessing the water should be simular in the UK. Should I use gypsum?

It'll be down to what you are brewing regards grains and adjuncts but if it's kits you won't need any additional salts.
What part of Ireland are you in?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Is this the right report?

Probably, but the address you've given us doesn't allow us to see a report, merely the page where you enter your location.

As I said above, the key things to know are calcium (Ca), chloride (Cl), sulphate (SO4), pH and hardness (measured in various different ways by different water companies, carbonate equivalents is the most common)
.

 

[Jamie1983]

Probably, but the address you've given us doesn't allow us to see a report, merely the page where you enter your location.

As I said above, the key things to know are calcium (Ca), chloride (Cl), sulphate (SO4), pH and hardness (measured in various different ways by different water companies, carbonate equivalents is the most common)
.

Sorry i guess that would make sense! Ill look into it and ill come back with more info if i dont figure it out
Thanks

 

[Jamie1983]

Hi guys i called the water company today as i plan to brew another beer and the told me basically i have very soft water around 85 mm per litre i think of CaCo3

 

[Gerryjo]

Hi guys i called the water company today as i plan to brew another beer and the told me basically i have very soft water around 85 mm per litre i think of CaCo3

Ask them for a breakdown of the water water quality report that's available to every consumer and the pH level and whilst they are at it any additional information you may need regarding home-brewing.
You can also buy one these kits that will let you know what your pH is Aas they are available from eBay, Amazon or an aquarium supplier.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Im new to brewing...At the moment im brewing lager and stout...Should I use gypsum?

he told me basically i have very soft water around 85 mm per litre i think of CaCo3

Soft is good. It's a bit more mineralised than the classic Plzen profile, but on the flip side your yeast and mash enzymes will benefit from the extra minerals so it's no big deal. At this stage, it's best to keep it simple - you've got plenty of other things to worry about when you're getting started and I worry that people get so intimidated by some of the technicalities that they think "this is just too complicated" when in fact it's one of those things where you get 80% of the benefit with a fairly minor input of effort, but yes it can get as complicated as you want it to be! But these rules of thumb will be enough for your first brews :

Lager - use as is.
Dark beers and hazies - add one level teaspoon of calcium chloride and one of gypsum (assuming a batch of 19-23 litres)
Bitter - one level tsp of calcium chloride and two of gypsum

It's not perfect, but it's a reasonable ballpark whilst you worry about all the other stuff. It's also worth pointing out that now is the perfect time to be brewing lager whilst it's cold, although you can make passable lager fermenting at 16-18°C with yeast like Fermentis 34/70 and Mangrove Jack M54 Californian.

 

[Jamie1983]

Soft is good. It's a bit more mineralised than the classic Plzen profile, but on the flip side your yeast and mash enzymes will benefit from the extra minerals so it's no big deal. At this stage, it's best to keep it simple - you've got plenty of other things to worry about when you're getting started and I worry that people get so intimidated by some of the technicalities that they think "this is just too complicated" when in fact it's one of those things where you get 80% of the benefit with a fairly minor input of effort, but yes it can get as complicated as you want it to be! But these rules of thumb will be enough for your first brews :

Lager - use as is.
Dark beers and hazies - add one level teaspoon of calcium chloride and one of gypsum (assuming a batch of 19-23 litres)
Bitter - one level tsp of calcium chloride and two of gypsum

It's not perfect, but it's a reasonable ballpark whilst you worry about all the other stuff. It's also worth pointing out that now is the perfect time to be brewing lager whilst it's cold, although you can make passable lager fermenting at 16-18°C with yeast like Fermentis 34/70 and Mangrove Jack M54 Californian.

I was thinking from the start i could brew the lager in my shed but the temp was always around 14 to 18c whithout awarness of different yeasts i was probably using some dat required 10 to 12 c. I had problems with those lagers so ill stick to the pale ale, but ill pick up some of that yeast for the next batch. A lot of people have told me not to worry about the water yet but if i can fix sonething i will. I think RO might be a bit advanced for me so i just want to get those basics right dat will improve the ph or reduce alkaline etc but i can understand that system could get me by for now! I made pale ale last night and added gypsum.. wish me luck!

 

[Jamie1983]

Soft is good. It's a bit more mineralised than the classic Plzen profile, but on the flip side your yeast and mash enzymes will benefit from the extra minerals so it's no big deal. At this stage, it's best to keep it simple - you've got plenty of other things to worry about when you're getting started and I worry that people get so intimidated by some of the technicalities that they think "this is just too complicated" when in fact it's one of those things where you get 80% of the benefit with a fairly minor input of effort, but yes it can get as complicated as you want it to be! But these rules of thumb will be enough for your first brews :

Lager - use as is.
Dark beers and hazies - add one level teaspoon of calcium chloride and one of gypsum (assuming a batch of 19-23 litres)
Bitter - one level tsp of calcium chloride and two of gypsum

It's not perfect, but it's a reasonable ballpark whilst you worry about all the other stuff. It's also worth pointing out that now is the perfect time to be brewing lager whilst it's cold, although you can make passable lager fermenting at 16-18°C with yeast like Fermentis 34/70 and Mangrove Jack M54 Californian.

Just a quick one im on MLHB website and they have liquid calcium chloride and flaked.. would both work with rhem ratios?

 

[Jamie1983]

Ive been working on this water report and turns out a lot of information is on the website but i could not get anything on the minerals; calcium, magnesium and pottasium.
I also used a converter which im not sure is correct but i multiplied the caco3 (85) by 0.6 which should result im my co3(carbonate).. maybe im wrong but these are the figures i have if anyone can tell me if it looks like water report substancial enough for tweaking.
Also i will use a ph tester to clarify the ph is correct!

Water grade: soft
Caco3 85
Bicarbonate 105.7
Carbonate 51
Sulphate 27
Chloride 13
Nitrate 3
Nitrite 0.016
Flouride 0.6
Sodium 8
Iron 12
Ph 7.5
Potassium na
Magnesium na
Calcium na

The bottom three are making it difficult to play around with brun water