Grain prices creeping up.

[borischarlton]

Agreed so somebody may get more of the grain and some more of the husk as you see in a normal 25kg bag of crushed it settles to the bottom

Yep, from really bad efficiency to a stuck mash. Either way inconsistency in brewing is really annoying

 

[GotOneBrewin]

It was a 25kg bag. They said they buy it from their supplier pre-crushed but didn't say if it was bagged by them or not. I did actually open it from the bottom as it was leaking out a little bit from that end.

 

[Clarence]

Has anyone noticed whether a loaf of bread- using a grain globallly in short supply and needing plenty of expensive energy to bake it- has gone up by a similar amount to malt? Or for that matter, pasta, but I don't know if there's mmuch energy used in making pasta. How about a bag of flour?

 

[Tanglefoot]

Has anyone noticed whether a loaf of bread- using a grain globallly in short supply and needing plenty of expensive energy to bake it- has gone up by a similar amount to malt? Or for that matter, pasta, but I don't know if there's mmuch energy used in making pasta. How about a bag of flour?

Pasta and other what used to be cheap staples such as cooking oil have seen some of the biggest recent price hikes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61630281

 

[user 4749]

I just bought a 25kg of crushed Pale Malt are you better buying uncrushed and crushing it yourself.? Plus what the best way to divide the crushed bag I have for efficiency?

 

[Rodcx500z]

This is interesting, Central European states ask EU to ease problems caused by influx of Ukrainian grain

 

[Clarence]

This is interesting, Central European states ask EU to ease problems caused by influx of Ukrainian grain

That's very interesting.
I understood that a lot of Ukrainian wheat was usually destined for Africa. Are we haging on to it and letting the Africans starve, as usual?
I see the pasta issue isn't a global problemm, rather it requires a particular kind of "hard" wheat , and the crop was damaged by severe weather conditions. Not really related to the barley harvest, then.

 

[An Ankoù]

Has anyone noticed whether a loaf of bread- using a grain globallly in short supply and needing plenty of expensive energy to bake it- has gone up by a similar amount to malt? Or for that matter, pasta, but I don't know if there's mmuch energy used in making pasta. How about a bag of flour?

Bread and pasta have not increased this side of the ditch. Neither, really, has pasta. There was a shortage of olive oil in the summer and the prices haven't really come down again. They never do. What goes up, stays up.

No smutty retorts, thank you.

 

[An Ankoù]

I just bought a 25kg of crushed Pale Malt are you better buying uncrushed and crushing it yourself.? Plus what the best way to divide the crushed bag I have for efficiency?

Efficiency?
My first concern would be for durability. It must be kept absolutely dry. I keep mine in big, blue, food-grade bins, sack and all. You could divide the grain into large zip-lock bags and store them in an old fementer with a lid.
Or a couple of cheap picnic cooler boxes, but it's important to have a lid.

 

[user 4749]

When you buy from someone who is weighing out ready crushed malt into smaller amounts at best you are going to get inconsistency between brews, it is next to impossible to get the grist correct.

The inconsistency was what I was worried about for efficiency. I have the bag in a dry garage in a plastic storage container with a lid .

Efficiency?
My first concern would be for durability. It must be kept absolutely dry. I keep mine in big, blue, food-grade bins, sack and all. You could divide the grain into large zip-lock bags and store them in an old fementer with a lid.
Or a couple of cheap picnic cooler boxes, but it's important to have a lid.

 

[The Baron]

I think quite a few brewers buy crushed and store in tubs usually airtight and it does keep longer than thought previously.
If you crush your own you can crush to suit your system and style and efficiency should be higher but it depends on whether you are chasing it. I personally get between 70-78 eff and am quite happy with that even at current prices it does not cost much more if you want a higher eff but bear in mind most recipes are written at 70-75 eff or grain kits you buy
The most important factor to me is consistency of eff not how high

 

[user 4749]

I think quite a few brewers buy crushed and store in tubs usually airtight and it does keep longer than thought previously.
If you crush your own you can crush to suit your system and style and efficiency should be higher but it depends on whether you are chasing it. I personally get between 70-78 eff and am quite happy with that even at current prices it does not cost much more if you want a higher eff but bear in mind most recipes are written at 70-75 eff or grain kits you buy
The most important factor to me is consistency of eff not how high

I had not thought about the husk settling at the top . This is my first foray into buying crushed sacks and mixing recipes myself so just wondering what the basics are for best results .
At present I have 1 crushed 25kg sack stored in a a big storage bin with a lid and various individual 1-3 kg crushed bags stored in an other storage bin .

 

[The Baron]

I would not worry too much re settling it is ok as long as a sack has been crushed together which is the norm as you will have a 25kg sack that is all grain if you get what I mean. I do try to dig from the middle of my bin which also mixes it up a little to help with evening out, it only gets to be a concern when you keep putting sacks of crushed in and leaving the residue from previous sack which will eventually become older and finer so every couple of sacks use it all before adding fresh in.

 

[Clarence]

On the subject of decent AIPA, I had a couple of Eight Arch Corbel recently. What a lovely pint! I've got the CAMRA book with the recipe in it, but I see Malt Miller do a 20 L kit of £41. CML don't do Corbel, but they do a kit with a tad more grain and equally exotic hops (ok a few less hops, but it's hard to find an exact comparison) for £26.50 with free delivery. What is it with MM? They seem a bit greedy or a I missing something.
EDIT
And MM say they've had to substitute the Ahtnum because they haven't got any, but the 2022 crop seems avaiable and cheap enough at THBC!

Thought I'd move this to where it belongs as I intend adding to it.
23 Litre Corbel kit at Kegthat.com £33

Buying the ingedients in the mnimum availabe quatities at THBC (20L)
Pale malt £10
T. Wheat £1
(Hops all 100g)
Magnum £2.45
Chinook £3.95
Cascade £3.25
Mosaic £5.95
Ahtanum £4.95
US-05 £2.95

Total £34.50 with loads of stuff left over. Using the proper recipe from the CAMRA book means a second batch could be made by buying just the base malt and the yeast and a bit more Mosaic. Total for 2nd batch £18.90

Who's got their feet in the trough then????

 

[LeeH]

THBC are very competitive. I so very rarely use the malt miller now. Just too expensive.

 

[Hoddy]

I ordered a 25kg sack from GEB and was definitely charged VAT .Might be as its sold for homebrewing wonder if commercial brewers pay VAT

commercial brewers dont pay VAT on brewing ingredients because you pay VAT on the beer you sell so it avoids a double dip of VAT being added.

 

[Hoddy]

Been down this road a few times now....
FP is not VAT registered so we pay VAT on purchases and dont charge VAT on sales.
For commercial brewing ingredients, most are zero rated so VAT is not on the invoice from the supplier, or it's a zero value line.

For obvious homebrewing products, the standard VAT rating applies to

• kits for home brewing, wine making etc;
• retail packs of hopped malt extract, malted barley, roasted barley, hops, special wine and brewer’s yeasts, wine or beer concentrates and similar products specialised to home-brewing or wine making; and
• retail packs of foods which are not specialised to home-brewing or wine-making, such as fresh, dried or tinned fruit and fruit juices, barley, glucose and plain malt extract, if they are held out for sale (ie packaged and labelled) for home brewing or wine making.

So... I often see the argument that if it's in a sack, in bulk, it should be zero rated.
There might be some interpretation, but I think it's clear that if a business sells malt that is offered as a homebrew product then it doesn't matter how it's packed, it's standard rated :

VAT notice 701/14

3.7.4 Ingredients for home beer and wine making​

Products that are canned, bottled, packaged or prepared for use in home wine or beer making are standard-rated. This includes:

• kits for home brewing, wine making and so on
• retail packs of hopped malt extract, malted barley, roasted barley, hops
• special wine and brewers’ yeasts
• grape concentrates
• retail packs of foods, which are specialised to home wine making, such as dried elderberries or sloes for making country wines

You must also standard rate any general food product that you hold out for sale specifically for home wine making or brewing, such as fresh, dried or canned fruit, fruit juices and concentrates, barley, glucose and plant malt extract. In this context, you hold them out for sale for home brewing and wine making if you:

• sell them through a retail outlet that specialises in home brewing and wine making materials
• sell them in the home brewing and wine making department or section of a general outlet
• label, advertise or otherwise display them as materials for home brewing or wine making, or provide with them or on their packaging any brewing or wine making recipes, or instructions for using them in the making of beer or wine (for example, the amount of sugar required for their fermentation or the type of yeast to be used)

on the button as we brewers have to be.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Checked grain price today at THBC £40 for 25kg of most grains at GEB £49.50 for MO. I bought 25kg from Staffs Brewery in Leek last week for £28. Plus a nice day out.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Checked grain price today at THBC £40 for 25kg of most grains at GEB £49.50 for MO. I bought 25kg from Staffs Brewery in Leek last week for £28. Plus a nice day out.

Yes, I paid my local brewery £28 for 25kg Crisps extra pale a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

commercial brewers dont pay VAT on brewing ingredients because you pay VAT on the beer you sell so it avoids a double dip of VAT being added.

That's not how a *value added* tax works. If you were to buy £1000 of VATable "inputs" (could be energy, accountant fees, whatever) and pay £200 of VAT on them, then sell the resulting product for £5000 on which £1000 of VAT was due, you net off the £200 and pay HMRC 1000-200 = £800 of VAT to cover the "value" you have added in your production process. No double dipping.

It's more that there is a general principle that ingredients for food preparation are generally zero-rated, whereas "finished" food can be rated at 0% or 20% (per the Jaffa cake case). Part of that is just for simplicity, and partly to respect commercial confidentiality - you can't imagine Coke declaring to the tax man that they used x kg of cinnamon and y kg of nutmeg as part of their VAT return. But it means that for instance frozen peas are zero-rated as they are normally cooked, whereas ice cream is eaten "as is" so is VATable. But Baked Alaska is zero-rated as it needs to be cooked....