foxbat's brewdays

[foxbat]

After just over 2 weeks in the fermenter I decided last Monday that it was time to keg my Flowers Original clone and take a final gravity sample.

The final gravity was 1.004 for an ABV of 4.5% and an attenuation of 89%. The ABV is about 0.5% higher than I was aiming for but still OK. This Brewlab Yorkshire yeast is a hugely strong attenuator, assisted in this case by the 8% dextrose addition to the boil. I've noticed that this yeast is not one to drop out quickly in the fermenter which means my FG samples always look a little cloudy but after being left to condition the beer ends up just as bright as any other that I make.

Despite the very low final gravities produced by this yeast I've found the finished beers to have a very full and creamy mouthfeel that defies common folklore that says a low FG makes for a 'thin' beer.

Anyway I got a keg and 4 bottles from the fermenter. The kegged beer was fined with leaf gelatin and had been purged during fermentation by the beer's own CO2 and is now sitting at around 12psi to carbonate and condition.

 

[foxy]

After just over 2 weeks in the fermenter I decided last Monday that it was time to keg my Flowers Original clone and take a final gravity sample.

The final gravity was 1.004 for an ABV of 4.5% and an attenuation of 89%. The ABV is about 0.5% higher than I was aiming for but still OK. This Brewlab Yorkshire yeast is a hugely strong attenuator, assisted in this case by the 8% dextrose addition to the boil. I've noticed that this yeast is not one to drop out quickly in the fermenter which means my FG samples always look a little cloudy but after being left to condition the beer ends up just as bright as any other that I make.

Despite the very low final gravities produced by this yeast I've found the finished beers to have a very full and creamy mouthfeel that defies common folklore that says a low FG makes for a 'thin' beer.

Anyway I got a keg and 4 bottles from the fermenter. The kegged beer was fined with leaf gelatin and had been purged during fermentation by the beer's own CO2 and is now sitting at around 12psi to carbonate and condition.

Probably due to the high mash temperature you have a full bodied beer.

 

[foxbat]

Well it's about time I posted an update on my Dark Ruby Mild, brewed to Graham Wheeler's Sarah Hughes recipe. Here it is:

The first thing to note is that the conditioning time really makes a difference to this beer. I first tried it about 3 weeks ago and whilst the flavours were sort of there it was too roasty, too grainy and overly sweet to my taste buds. Now, after a total of 10 weeks in the keg it's fully rounded and really does taste great.

I've had a pint or two of SH recently enough to remember it; so is this recipe the same? Nope. SH as I remember it is more stone fruity. I'd like to try this recipe again some time using something like Bramling Cross as a flavouring hop to see how that would come out. Is it a good recipe in its own right? Yes, most definitely. It's rich, slightly spicy and just full enough flavoured to warn you that it's 5.7% and needs to be treated with respect. A very good winter beer IMHO.

 

[pilgrimhudd]

I saw this recipe a month or two ago and thought i'd give it a try, maybe i'll save it till the autumn. Sounds very nice.

 

[foxbat]

I saw this recipe a month or two ago and thought i'd give it a try, maybe i'll save it till the autumn. Sounds very nice.

You need to like Crystal malt let's put it like that I think I said back when I brewed a Dunkel with loads of Caramunich in it that it tasted like a chilled mild. Well, this mild tastes like a warm Dunkel!

 

[foxbat]

This weekend I've decided to brew the recipe for Theakston Best Bitter as printed in the Graham Wheeler book.

For a change I'll be using Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire) for this brew instead of the Brewlab Yorkshire that I've been using lately. The plan is to alternate between these two yeasts for the next four or five brews to see which one I prefer.

Theakston Best is a low OG (1.038) recipe so a litre starter will be enough and because I want to keep some behind for the future I'm doing a 1500ml starter and will keep 500ml back in a kilner jar. The best-before date on this pack was 5 months in the future which is very fresh so there are no concerns about the starting cell count.

Only the Brewlab yeast has ever managed to successfully escape from this three litre flask so I feel safe using it today. The starter's on in the brew-fridge at 20C and should be done in a couple of days.

 

[soupdragon]

Have you ever attempted a brew that could be described as similar to a Greene king beer? I know that particular brewery tends to divide opinions here but I'm slowly getting my malty taste buds back and was wondering if a Burton or Scottish yeast might be suitable for their elusive house strain in an Abbot clone?
My default position at the moment is to go for a Burton.

Cheers Tom

 

[foxbat]

Have you ever attempted a brew that could be described as similar to a Greene king beer? I know that particular brewery tends to divide opinions here but I'm slowly getting my malty taste buds back and was wondering if a Burton or Scottish yeast might be suitable for their elusive house strain in an Abbot clone?
My default position at the moment is to go for a Burton.

Cheers Tom

I don't think I can be much help with a recipe in the style of Abbot Ale unfortunately. Yeast-wise I'd describe Wyeast 1728 (Scottish) as neutral rather than malt-forward and I'd suspect the Burton strains are going to have fruity character though I've never brewed with one.

 

[soupdragon]

I got a recipe from Mr Boondoggle on here. I won't be doing it exactly as is, he likes a bit more crystal in the recipe than my taste buds are ready for just yet. His and others I've seen use S-04 but I'm seriously tempted to use something with a bit more "character". If it doesn't work out then I've only myself to blame.
I've still got your Fuggle Duck to do yet, it's getting closer to the top of my brew list. So this Abbot is still a short way off yet

Cheers Tom

 

[foxbat]

I got a recipe from Mr Boondoggle on here. I won't be doing it exactly as is, he likes a bit more crystal in the recipe than my taste buds are ready for just yet. His and others I've seen use S-04 but I'm seriously tempted to use something with a bit more "character". If it doesn't work out then I've only myself to blame.
I've still got your Fuggle Duck to do yet, it's getting closer to the top of my brew list. So this Abbot is still a short way off yet

Cheers Tom

I'm not an expert on the dry yeasts but from the feedback I've seen on here I think you can probably do better than S-04.

 

[Rodcx500z]

You could some of these from cml, Atlantic, beoir, midland, house, the firm, all very good yeast's, one i have used is midland and beoir, both very good

 

[soupdragon]

It was a toss up between Mangrove Jack M36 and CML Beòir. Might end up doing the same recipe twice and try both yeasts

Cheers Tom

 

[matt76]

It was a toss up between Mangrove Jack M36 and CML Beòir. Might end up doing the same recipe twice and try both yeasts

Cheers Tom

If you have the means, I've always found it very illuminating to do a split batch to compare different yeast strains.

The advantage is there can be no doubt about the reasons for any difference if it's the same wort fermented in two FVs side by side.

If you re-brew there's always that doubt in your mind "did I change something in my process/ingredients, difference in age/conditioning etc"

I won't bore you with my own yeast opinions (check out my brew day thread if you really want to know) but since you mention them specifically I think you would find a yeast-off between CML Beoir and MJ M36 very interesting (I think both will make good beers, but different - which one is "better" will be very subjective)

 

[soupdragon]

If you have the means, I've always found it very illuminating to do a split batch to compare different yeast strains.

Can't really as I'll only have the one empty corny and I gave up bottling years ago.
Mrs soupdragon is my official taster and will definitely remember any differences between the two brews

Cheers Tom

 

[foxbat]

Brew day today for the Theakston Best clone from the Graham Wheeler book that I'm doing. Here's the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Date: 27 March 2022
Batch Size (fermenter): 24.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 14.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Water profile: Ca:92 Mg:12 Na:9 SO4:138 Cl:92
Ingredients:
------------
Amt         Name                                   Type         %/IBU 
29.16 L     Tesco Ashbeck                          Water        -     
3.90 g      Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash)        Water Agent  -     
3.00 g      Calcium Chloride (Mash)                Water Agent  -     
2.40 g      Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash)              Water Agent  -     
3.680 kg    Crisp Maris Otter (7.9 EBC)            Grain        94.6 %
0.210 kg    Crisp Light Crystal (150.0 EBC)        Grain        5.4 % 
0.80 g      Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Sparge)      Water Agent  -     
0.60 g      Calcium Chloride (Sparge)              Water Agent  -     
0.50 g      Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Sparge)            Water Agent  -     
20.00 g     Challenger [7.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min    Hop          18.4 IBUs
10.00 g     Fuggles [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min       Hop          6.0 IBUs
10.00 g     Fuggle [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min        Hop          2.2 IBUs
1.00 Items  Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 7.0 mins)       Fining       -     
1.0 pkg     West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast        -     

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 3.89 kg
----------------------------
Name     Description                      Step Temperat Step Time  
Mash In  Add 24.16 L of water at 70.0 C   67C           60 min     
Sparge: Dunk sparge with 5L

I followed the recipe more or less to the letter except for substituting in 200g of pilsner malt for maris otter because I needed to use it up.

Brew day went entirely according to plan () with all the pre and post boil volumes and gravities being exactly where they should be. I ended up collecting 24.5 litres of tasty looking wort into the fermenter.

The ground water around here must still be quite cold because I managed to quickly chill the wort to 21C with my immersion chiller. That meant there was no wait required before pitching the yeast and so the decanted starter of Wyeast 1469 was pitched and the fermenter tucked up in my brew fridge set to 20C.

 

[matt76]

I like the look of that @foxbat , fundamentally it looks quite a simple and elegant recipe with just 5% crystal or so and modest hopping.

Since I'm exploring bitters this year anyway I'm inclined to give this a whirl myself in the coming months - it would be a good exercise in restraint when it comes to both the hops and crystal malt!

Do you think the Challenger specifically add much besides bittering or is it kinda like the British Bitter equivalent of Magnum in Lagers (or indeed simply saying "add about 18 IBUs of anything suitable you have to hand")?

 

[matt76]

I don't cold crash

I never dry hop or cold crash

Hey @foxbat I just had to do a search to double check I didn't imaging you saying this - turns out you did, quite a few times!

So this is really the case, you never cold crash (even for lagers?), you just add finings to the keg and I suppose chuck it in your kegerator/keezer and do any cold conditioning in the keg?

Reason for asking is I've got another lager to keg - I've heard Jamil Zainasheff say lager yeasts can get stressed and give off dodgy flavours is you could crash too fast.

To be honest it's never been an issue in the past though I did take the precaution with the last one recently.

But my thinking is, get it off the yeast cake, fine in the keg (which I'll be doing regardless), and effectively cold crash & lager* in the keg and avoid the problem altogether

(* Yeah, because I've never ever just got stuck in 3-4 days after kegging )

 

[foxbat]

Hey @foxbatSo this is really the case, you never cold crash (even for lagers?), you just add finings to the keg and I suppose chuck it in your kegerator/keezer and do any cold conditioning in the keg?

That's right, I never cold-crash and do exactly as you describe above. I suppose if someone notices that their process results in excessive trub coming from the fermenter than I can see an advantage in trying to get rid of that through cold-crashing but my yeast seem keen to drop out quickly in the fermenter when they're done. Maybe it's because I pitch rather a lot, or maybe because my kettle finings end up in the fermenter? If you're using 2308 you may be pleased with how well it flocculates. It's quite like an ale yeast in that respect.

But my thinking is, get it off the yeast cake, fine in the keg (which I'll be doing regardless), and effectively cold crash & lager* in the keg and avoid the problem altogether

Go for it!

(* Yeah, because I've never ever just got stuck in 3-4 days after kegging )

Lagers are particularly annoying because they really aren't up to what I'd call the German standard for at least 4 weeks in a cold keg but like any good cook I reluctantly taste all my creations at regular intervals during the process.

 

[matt76]

If you're using 2308 you may be pleased with how well it flocculates.

I did in the last one which (fined with gelatin) is absolutely pin sharp crystal clear, and very tasty too.

But it did seem to be a bit cursed for me with all the issues I had ("Who will rid me of this turbulent yeast!" Not often you get gags that straddle homebrewing and classical literature ) that I decided in this one to go for 2206, which I believe is similar but maybe attenuates a bit more. On paper. But not in practice it would seem. Despite the fact that when I used it twice before it over-attenuated both times

 

[foxbat]

I kegged my Theakston Best clone after two weeks in the fermenter. There was still the odd bubble coming through the blow-off tube every 90 seconds or so which I put down to some off-gassing after fermentation and was not a reason to delay the packaging.

FG was 1.005 which may seem low but I'm starting from a relatively low OG of only 1.038 and the attenuation of 86.5% is within the range that I get from all liquid yeasts. The final ABV is 4.3% and I got one keg and 3 bottles from the fermenter. The keg was fined with dissolved leaf gelatin and is set on about 12 psi to carbonate.

The empty fermenter smelled absolutely luscious for such a simple recipe and I'm really looking forward to trying this once it's carbonated and conditioned.