First A.G Lager- water treatment help needed

[bassman]

With half a dozen successful A.G. ales done I'm now about to do my first lager. I have up to 7 Kg of lager malt and some Hallertauer Hersbrucker hops I'll be using White Labs WLP830 German Lager yeast. My water is hard and has a pH of 5.8. Should I add a quantity of distilled water to reduce the pH? if so how much?

 

[MyQul]

It's not the water PH your interested in it's the alkalinity. Have a look on your water supplier's website for your area and post it here.

 

[bassman]

mg/l or ppm CaCO3 Degrees Clark Degrees French Degrees German
171.0 12.0 17.1 9.6

 

[MyQul]

If I'm understanding things correctly your water is 171 ppm alkalinity. For lagers you need it to be about 30 ppm. I normally use brupaks ams/crs to strip out the extra alkalinity along with this chart for how much (it's the scale entitled CRS in Millilitres per liter http://www.brupaks.com/water treatment.htm

Have a look a Strange-Steves beginners water guide for using other acids to strip out the excess alkalinity
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64822.

You'll also probably need to add some gypsum to the mash too but I haven't started getting into flavouring ions yet. Hopefully @strange-steve will be along in a bit to have a look at your thread. He knows loads more about water treatment than I do

 

[Simonh82]

If you do end up diluting your water it would probably be cheaper to use bottled mineral water rather than distilled. Tesco Ashbeck and Asda Eden Falls both come from the same source and are very soft so good for a pilsner style lager. They are about £1 per 5L bottle.

 

[MyQul]

As simon says using Ashbek or Eden falls would be the easiest option for now if you have no means to strip out the alkalinity/measure your alkalinity. I used to use Eden Falls before I started using CRS. It's 30ppm alkalinity. Ideally you need to add some gypsum but you dont HAVE to if you dont have any. I havent been adding any to my pale/blonde ales and the beers taste great

 

[strange-steve]

mg/l or ppm CaCO3 Degrees Clark Degrees French Degrees German
171.0 12.0 17.1 9.6

Are these figures for hardness or alkalinity?
For a lager you generally want fairly low hardness and alkalinity, as others have said, Tesco Ashbeck water is pretty good as is for a lager. A small amount of gypsum or calcium chloride would help but it's certainly not a must.

 

[Tanzanite]

what is cheaper in the long run is a R/O Unit , easy fitted under the sink, it will strip your water right down, i use mine for marine fish keeping, strip out all the nasties then rebuild the water to suit my reef., it will be perfect for brewing. there not mega expensive

 

[KC]

Isn't ph a measure of alkalinity/acidity?

 

[MyQul]

Isn't ph a measure of alkalinity/acidity?

Yes, but your not wanting to lower the brewing water ph but the mash PH. So your measuring that

 

[TartanSpecial]

My understanding is for Lager you only want about 50mg/ltr Ca, Sulphate and Chloride (basis Graham Wheeler water calculator). If you treat your current water with CRS to strip out the excess carbonate you will end up with too much sulphate and chloride (since CRS is a mix of hydrochloric and sulphuric acid....carbonate come out as CO2 but the added sulphate and chloride remain). I don;t know the sulphate and chloride content of your tap water, but if they are around eg 15-20ppm and your calcium is guesstimate around 85ppm then diluting your current water 50/50 with Ashbeck or Eden falls and treating the brewing liquor with 0.33ml/litre CRS and approx 15mgs of Gypsum and 30mgs Calcium chloride per litre brewing total liquor should get you to roughly where you want to be.

 

[bassman]

Thanks for your replies everyone

 

[Tanzanite]

With half a dozen successful A.G. ales done I'm now about to do my first lager. I have up to 7 Kg of lager malt and some Hallertauer Hersbrucker hops I'll be using White Labs WLP830 German Lager yeast. My water is hard and has a pH of 5.8. Should I add a quantity of distilled water to reduce the pH? if so how much?

bi carbonate of soda softens water i used it in my fish tank when keeping Discus before i got a R.O UNIT, i have a spare R.O unit if any one wants it. its in very good working order if you pick it up it yours (nottm)