Finings in a closed fermenter

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Example of the amount of crud that dropped out of an already "clear" beer in the settling bucket overnight, with two-part finings.

You can see the clear beer on the side next to the tap, and the "bow wave" of fine crud coming in from the left

 

[Buffers brewery]

I started along the lines of adding the finings at atmospheric pressure at the end of fermentation before transferring to a barrel. But, as I use sugar solution to carbonate I thought that could potentially produce haze so finings needed to be added after carbonation and the beer would be under pressure in the barrel.
I think I have the bones of a process in post #9 above. I might try it on a barrel of pale ale I've just started that is a little hazy.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

FWIW @Buffers brewery @Caramel Ox, I've had mixed results using just gelatine.
It seems to work with some beers but not others; and I suspect it depends on the charge on the particles you're trying to remove.
I've had much better success with 2-part finings, and also with kieselsol (silica solution) followed by gelatine.
I think using both, targets both kinds of charged particles.

 

[Twostage]

I've used finings a few times and never swirled. The biggest thing I noticed was the beer took longer to carbonate which I assume was because there was less yeast in suspension. I don't do it regularly as I don't seem to have a problem with clarity (well not with beer anyway )

 

[hoppyscotty]

According to this gelatine is still the daddy:


This is interesting even if it is a bit more than what you need on the homebrew scale:

 

[Buffers brewery]

FWIW @Buffers brewery @Caramel Ox, I've had mixed results using just gelatine.
It seems to work with some beers but not others; and I suspect it depends on the charge on the particles you're trying to remove.
I've had much better success with 2-part finings, and also with kieselsol (silica solution) followed by gelatine.
I think using both, targets both kinds of charged particles.

Good to know. I'll see if my process works first before refining the fining

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

I've used finings a few times and never swirled.

 

[hoppyscotty]

The GEB video talks about 'optimising' your finings. There are a number of factors that can impact the success and therefore determine what your finings dosage should be, so if you've not had success with finings then you're probably dosing incorrectly or using at a sub-optimal temperature.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Next question, what gelatine to use? Sainsbury's Dr Oetker?

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Next question, what gelatine to use? Sainsbury's Dr Oetker?

That’s the one I’ve used

 

[Caramel Ox]

I always transfer from the FV into a clean bucket, then add finings and wait 24h before racking off to keg
It's surprising how much drops out of it in the intermediate bucket and I don't really want that in my keg...

EDIT: I should add that sometimes if the beer is proving extremely cloudy and I'm in a hurry, I have occasionally depressurised the keg and added gelatine... but I prefer not to do it

Do you do anything about co2 in the secondary? I haven’t chased clarity until now and not sure what to expect based on the beer out of the fermenter.

 

[The-Engineer-That-Brews]

Do you do anything about co2 in the secondary? I haven’t chased clarity until now and not sure what to expect based on the beer out of the fermenter.

I’ve always just carbonated in the keg using a CO2 cylinder I’m afraid!

 

[Davegase]

You've given me an idea . I could add the finings to the pressure barrel through the beer out post after carbonation and at the start of conditioning? How about this for a (complicated) method...
Prepare finings solution and pour into an empty sanitised coke bottle.
Fill a beer bottle with newly carbonated beer (counter pressure fill)
Carefully transfer the beer to the solution in the coke bottle.
Back fill the beer/finings solution back into the keg.
?

That works for me while using a floating dip tube.

 

[Buffers brewery]

You've given me an idea . I could add the finings to the pressure barrel through the beer out post after carbonation and at the start of conditioning? How about this for a (complicated) method...
Prepare finings solution and pour into an empty sanitised coke bottle.
Fill a beer bottle with newly carbonated beer (counter pressure fill)
Carefully transfer the beer to the solution in the coke bottle.
Back fill the beer/finings solution back into the keg.
?

Further thought on this method. Just put the gelatine solution into a 500ml beer bottle and use counter pressure filler to top up with beer. Then, still using the CPF reduce barrel pressure (I’ll fit a spundy to the gas post) and increase bottle pressure to drive the beer/gelatine mixture back into the barrel. Possibly, refill the bottle from the barrel then return to the barrel to flush beer/finings mixture from the lines.
Watch this space

 

[Davegase]

Further thought on this method. Just put the gelatine solution into a 500ml beer bottle and use counter pressure filler to top up with beer. Then, still using the CPF reduce barrel pressure (I’ll fit a spundy to the gas post) and increase bottle pressure to drive the beer/gelatine mixture back into the barrel. Possibly, refill the bottle from the barrel then return to the barrel to flush beer/finings mixture from the lines.
Watch this space

I've been using this for a couple of years without any problems, I use Brausol special from The Malt Miller, I've not used gelatin.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Just one more question about using gelatine. Do you have to add the gelatine solution to the beer while it (the gelatine solution) is still warm or can it be left to cool? The beer will already be cold.

 

[foxy]

Just one more question about using gelatine. Do you have to add the gelatine solution to the beer while it (the gelatine solution) is still warm or can it be left to cool? The beer will already be cold.

To work properly the gelatin has to be blanched in cold water and brought up to 68-70C in the microwave (prevents clumping) and put into the fermenter at fermenter temperature of 0C. If you let the gelatin solution cool then it will set.

 

[Buffers brewery]

To work properly the gelatin has to be blanched in cold water and brought up to 68-70C in the microwave (prevents clumping) and put into the fermenter at fermenter temperature of 0C. If you let the gelatin solution cool then it will set.

Thanks @foxy . I thought that might be the case but everything I read on line talked about how to prepare the gelatine solution and how to cool the beer before adding it but nothing explicit about adding the gelatine while still hot to the cold beer.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Managing to confuse myself here. After further reading, I’m wondering if it would be better to add finings to my pressure barrel when I transfer and prime with sugar solution. Will the finings interfere with carbonation?

That's when I fine

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Further thought on this method. Just put the gelatine solution into a 500ml beer bottle and use counter pressure filler to top up with beer. Then, still using the CPF reduce barrel pressure (I’ll fit a spundy to the gas post) and increase bottle pressure to drive the beer/gelatine mixture back into the barrel. Possibly, refill the bottle from the barrel then return to the barrel to flush beer/finings mixture from the lines.
Watch this space

That is best option.