Fermzilla All Rounder Question

[Brew_DD2]

But logically, taking in all the possibilities which can go wrong, why is it that the only ones with problems are the ones coming from China?

We have also looked up those from Australia, they seem to have a range in their arsenal, including PET kegs. They were released in 2017 so they have stood the test of time and the problems don't seem to occur in their range.

The downside is they are not available here.

On your first point, the answer is that the vast vast majority of pressure vessels sold in Europe are Kegland's ones, so it stands to reason that you'll see more of their failures.

There is a shop in the UK that currently stocks the Keg King ones.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

I think there was an issue on some earlier gen 1 fermzilla tanks, and also iirc on a some in a certain gen 1 batch was identified date stamped to specific months

But if researching this don’t know if also considered

1. Foxy and some other pro-KegKing/anti-KegLand actively run propaganda to spread issues on forums and social media to denigrate KegLand. Sometimes posting without any link/explanation/evidence of what really happened. There are many examples of this, and posts showing foxy has relationship with KegKing and the CEO and is anti KegLand. It goes back to some KK/KL split and all pretty unpleasant. I have seen others already commented to say they have seen and know about this

2.There are many KegLand distributors in U.K. and Europe and have been for quite a while, including the biggest U.K. equipment suppliers. The number of customers using KegLand products is absolutely massive compared to KegKing products. As you have discovered yourself many are user error issues. And as you’ve just found out yourself, in comparison, you can’t get a KegKing tank here and right now and no distributor/wholesaler at all. There was just one for a while but I think they have gone into administration if I understand correctly

 

[fgoulding]

I just try to share my actual experience (good & bad) but I do also say that there are other options from other manufacturers which I haven't tried.

This is mainly due to the fact that we only have access to a very small set of Kegland products here in Ireland and no Keg King products at all, so that's all I can talk about.

But when I read overly partisan comments about certain companies or products, I just switch off and ignore them....

 

[Mayor of Simpleton]

I find the overly partisan comments on companies/products and even home brewing techniques immensely frustrating. It happens every time those are mentioned. They add nothing to what starts out as a perfectly reasonable question or request for help and derail the whole discussion. This thread is a perfect example of that.

 

[F00b4r]

I would also be very careful about researching potential issues using Facebook groups run by or affiliated in some way with companies (that also includes those seemingly independent ones that get given a lot of free gear for review), most seem to have a very nasty habit of removing posts that they don’t like related to certain issues. I have been quite shocked at how many user issues have been censored in various groups and would always try and avoid making a decision based solely on or You Tubers that get given gear. You can see it to a greater or lesser extent pretty much anywhere there is sponsorship.

I’m not saying it’s impossible that eg one company has a higher failure rate but there are a multitude of factors at play, including numbers sold.

 

[dcbrookes]

I wonder if some of the failures have been due to over tightening the Kegland handle bolts and/or carrying a full fermenter by the handles. I found the bolts KL supply for the AR handle are just a tad too short to grip the nylon insert part of the nuts, so I replaced mine with longer bolts. There is a temptation with the supplied bolts to over-tighten just to get the shockproof part of the nut to grip.

I too find the relentless KL knocking of one member pretty tedious and undermining the good points that person has to make. Kegland would not be the successful company it is if it did not supply many excellent and useful items at competitive prices.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I think all of the failures of the Jars on the Fermzilla's are due to over tightening and using the two bosses on the side of the jar as a handle to exert excessive torque causing micro cracks then when people dry hop under pressure and you get the hydraulic hammer affect ramming down on the jar the weaknesses are exposed. I personally never tighten anything on my Fermzilla much at all - just screw it in then give it a bit of a nip, and never had leaking issues even under pressure, but some people feel the need to give everything a super strong tightening. The only joint I really tightened up was the left hand thread of the butterfly valve. The way the seals are orientated on the Fermzilla - specifically the lid and the jar, means tightening doesn't improve the sealing as the O-Rings work on the sides of the flanges and not the base so by tightening super hard just makes it all more difficult to disassemble risking damage.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

I think all of the failures of the Jars on the Fermzilla's are due to over tightening and using the two bosses on the side of the jar as a handle to exert excessive torque causing micro cracks then when people dry hop under pressure and you get the hydraulic hammer affect ramming down on the jar the weaknesses are exposed. I personally never tighten anything on my Fermzilla much at all - just screw it in then give it a bit of a nip, and never had leaking issues even under pressure, but some people feel the need to give everything a super strong tightening. The only joint I really tightened up was the left hand thread of the butterfly valve. The way the seals are orientated on the Fermzilla - specifically the lid and the jar, means tightening doesn't improve the sealing as the O-Rings work on the sides of the flanges and not the base so by tightening super hard just makes it all more difficult to disassemble risking damage.

There is another reason too which have heard of before and worth mentioning here

Some have closed the butterfly valve while the collection container contains wort and yeast actively fermenting and building pressure just within the collection jar. Should never do this

 

[Rodcx500z]

I only tighten the lid on my all rounder hand tight that's all you need, i have one with ss ball locks which i don't like so have ordered plastic one's which will also be hand tight

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

Actually, in the interest of safety, worth posting the warnings list (not sure that image going to be readable though), but can see the whole instruction manual available here

 

[hoppyscotty]

There is another reason too which have heard of before and worth mentioning here

Some have closed the butterfly valve while the collection container contains wort and yeast actively fermenting and building pressure just within the collection jar. Should never do this

Indeed. It does specifically say in the instructions to not ferment with the valve closed. It's not specific enough to say not to do it only if there is wort and yeast in the jar but even so states to ferment with the valve open. This seems to be a surprise to people when it is highlighted....I'm one of those that usually never reads the instructions for stuff and tends to enjoy working things out as I go, but luckily I did read the instructions when I got my Fermzilla and picked up on these things straight away.

Another urban myth that is spread on the internet is that the jar is not pressure rated so this probably leads to people thinking that when pressure fermenting you close the butterfly valve, but this is not true, the jar is pressure rated.

I also have the SS ball locks and have had no issues with them...I think they're really only an issue if you unscrew them alot, say for cleaning as the metal threads quickly wear away the plastic threads. I've never removed mine since first installing so all is good so far.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

Another urban myth that is spread on the internet is that the jar is not pressure rated so this probably leads to people thinking that when pressure fermenting you close the butterfly valve, but this is not true, the jar is pressure rated.

I think there is something somewhere in specs about the white plastic lid on the collection jar not being pressure rated, so maybe myth comes from that. Although had a look and cant find where it says that at moment

 

[RoomWithABrew]

There is another reason too which have heard of before and worth mentioning here

Some have closed the butterfly valve while the collection container contains wort and yeast actively fermenting and building pressure just within the collection jar. Should never do this

Can't see why that would make the top of one of these things fail though!
It stands to reason that more failures will occur in the cohort with more sales, much like more people vaccinated in hospital with covid when 95% of population vaccinated.
Testing to check a pressure vessel is safe is a test at that time to check it's safe is not future proofing. What makes something " safe " for 24 months after a test? Past performance no guarantee of future success.
There's a lot of money out there to be made from home brewers, some products are good and others might be better or worse. A robust after sales service, fault tracing and honesty about these issues from the suppliers / developers is what's required. We don't see this as the market is unregulated and fortunately no significant harm is being done. I'm not surprised either that lot's of all in one brew systems and kit is basically the same with a different badge much like some Fiat and Seat cars, essentially clone brew kit or rebadging going on.
But past performance is no guarantee. So don't sleep or live next to an out of control pressure fermenter.

I use products from both of the suppliers mentioned in the above thread, I've had sympathetic after sales support from one company with a few issues I've had and dire response and pathetic excuses from the " chief " of the other blaming me for getting in touch with them directly and not the local supplier when I enquired directly to them about a problem. Bad communication is the root of many a complaint. That won't stop me making beer and trying to make it better each time. I can't see that I'd go stainless and get rid of the pet fermenters I've got even if I won the lottery. The cynic in me says read this before it gets censored.

 

[Bolsover Brewer]

We both have some sort of engineering background, I retired 2 years ago and got back into home brewing with a plastic bucket, but after seeing a lot of videos of people using pressure fermenters it sparked my interest. They are a lot more expensive so if you don't want to experiment with pressure there's no need to research out which ones are exploding and which ones aren't .

Because I like to cover all bases which includes the kids.

On your first point, the answer is that the vast vast majority of pressure vessels sold in Europe are Kegland's ones, so it stands to reason that you'll see more of their failures.

There is a shop in the UK that currently stocks the Keg King ones.

Well I don't know the ratio of numbers sold from each company for comparison, does anyone?
At the moment it is the stainless fermenters for us.

 

[Buffers brewery]

fit a tap and a gas post to your bucket lid you can use it for a blow off tube and capture gas using a balloon for use during suckback in cold crash.
And once you've purged your keg with CO2 you can connect the tap to your liquid post on the keg and the gas posted on the keg to the gas posted on the bucket lid to do a closed gravity transfer.

That's what I do. No pressure.

 

[Davegase]

Because I like to cover all bases which includes the kids.


Well I don't know the ratio of numbers sold from each company for comparison, does anyone?
At the moment it is the stainless fermenters for us.

If you can afford stainless go for it. It should last a lifetime.

 

[Davegase]

That's what I do. No pressure.

I usually do a closed, gravity transfer of fully carbonated beer from my pressure fermenter to my keg.
After the keg being purged of starsan with fermentation CO2 followed by the keg being equalised in pressure from fermentation with the spunding valve fitted to the keg.
I must add that I don't always ferment under pressure !

 

[Eskdale]

… and it’s all made in China, imported by Kegland et al. Don’t forget Kegland have their own store on AliExpress.

Of course, Keg Land have no manufacturing facilities in Australia. But I will still buy from them. Most of what I have in my house was made in China. It is a breath of fresh air to have a true blue product of quality in my brewing kit. (Snubby)

Emma

 

[Leon103]

On your first point, the answer is that the vast vast majority of pressure vessels sold in Europe are Kegland's ones, so it stands to reason that you'll see more of their failures.

There is a shop in the UK that currently stocks the Keg King ones.

Who? Couldn't find any when I was looking to buy last week

 

[Davegase]

Who? Couldn't find any when I was looking to buy last week

I received an order from brew2bottle that I placed last Friday yesterday afternoon, and they are still showing a lot of stock of keg king products.
If you're if you're worried about the status of the company due to recent talk, use credit card.