Fermenting under pressure

[foxy]

Perhaps it's other factors affecting your beer? As Dan mentioned, he has won countless awards for his pressure fermented beer.

I don't think 'limited success' translates to winning countless awards, as he also mentioned, he hopes that isn't the only reason. Also Dan didn't mention his process, he may be only adding pressure towards the end.

 

[dan125]

I don't think 'limited success' translates to winning countless awards, as he also mentioned, he hopes that isn't the only reason. Also Dan didn't mention his process, he may be only adding pressure towards the end.

My normal process is to let the yeast get going for a day or two without any pressure, then gradually increase it.
If I'm dry hopping I usually hold it at just 5-8psi or so until fermentation is slowing down, then get the DH in, then let it rise to about 10-12psi.
If not dry hopping then I just gradually increase the pressure up to about 10-12psi.
I've not noticed any negative effects on yeast health with these relatively modest pressures, (and neither have several bjcp judges) and the benefits of O2 free packaging far outweigh any negatives IMO.
I'm not entirely sure if I get more value out of my DH by rousing, but this is a standard part of my process with hoppy beers, and I'm definitely getting an overall better hop character than I ever did before using the fermentasaurus.

When I made it to the final of the Verdant NEIPA comp last year (limited success because I didn't win) the bcjp judge told me my beer was better than the Verdant he was given to compare with the entries. I'm not saying all my beers would score 45pts in competition but the pressure fermenting can't be doing too much harm

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

My normal process is to let the yeast get going for a day or two without any pressure, then gradually increase it.
If I'm dry hopping I usually hold it at just 5-8psi or so until fermentation is slowing down, then get the DH in, then let it rise to about 10-12psi.
If not dry hopping then I just gradually increase the pressure up to about 10-12psi.
I've not noticed any negative effects on yeast health with these relatively modest pressures, (and neither have several bjcp judges) and the benefits of O2 free packaging far outweigh any negatives IMO.
I'm not entirely sure if I get more value out of my DH by rousing, but this is a standard part of my process with hoppy beers, and I'm definitely getting an overall better hop character than I ever did before using the fermentasaurus.

When I made it to the final of the Verdant NEIPA comp last year (limited success because I didn't win) the bcjp judge told me my beer was better than the Verdant he was given to compare with the entries. I'm not saying all my beers would score 45pts in competition but the pressure fermenting can't be doing too much harm

Well done on the competition.

 

[Fireside Ales Homebrewery]

I listened to a good pod-cast on the subject of pressure fermentation last night. Curtesy of Beer smith.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...r-brewing-podcast/id398500515?i=1000400084905
Worth a listen if anyone is interested

 

[Leon103]

I don't think 'limited success' translates to winning countless awards, as he also mentioned, he hopes that isn't the only reason. Also Dan didn't mention his process, he may be only adding pressure towards the end.

Perhaps dan is playing done his success. He was a national champion and when he enters forum comps he always hits the medals. Perhaps it's because this forum doesn't have serious brewers like you mentioned previous.

Dan highlight his technique which I was fully aware of, I have also tried nearly all of his beer and I agree with the verdant judge, they are better than most commercial beers.

There are many benefits for pressure fermenting. For me it is controlling the krausen, keeping out oxygen, using the pressure to pour off samples for tasting and testing. Also rousing hops and transferring to kegs.

 

[itry]

I would be interested to hear if anyone has given fermenting under pressure a real go and given it up as detrimental or pointless.

On the plus side the equipment was cheap and it's pretty easy. I'm certainly looking forward to replacing my syphoning and bottling with closed transfer to a single keg.

Upgrading my equipment and embracing new techniques is giving me a lot of enjoyment at the moment. Not all going smoothly but I'm getting there.

I set out keen with my new fermzilla to do this. i was probably doing it wrong. I put in the wort and yeast. then sealed it , put on a spunking valve and waited for the fun. i found that it took a bit longer , my thoughts was it ran out of oxygen and the pressure wasnt good for the yeast. now i do the same and set the spunding valve low it seems happy enough.

 

[Brewnaldo]

I set out keen with my new fermzilla to do this. i was probably doing it wrong. I put in the wort and yeast. then sealed it , put on a spunking valve and waited for the fun. i found that it took a bit longer , my thoughts was it ran out of oxygen and the pressure wasnt good for the yeast. now i do the same and set the spunding valve low it seems happy enough.

Theres ya problem

 

[An Ankoù]

I listened to a good pod-cast on the subject of pressure fermentation last night. Curtesy of Beer smith.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podca...r-brewing-podcast/id398500515?i=1000400084905
Worth a listen if anyone is interested

I'll have a listen because I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why pressure fermenting has become all the rage unless you're a commercial brewery making lager. I get the bit about esters being reduced and fermentation temperatures able to go higher. I get (in theory) the idea that transferring from one vessel to another reduces contact with oxygen- but there are other ways of doing that, and I found this: Pressurized Fermentation Process and Benefits | Homebrew Academy to be no help whatsoever! I've read @DocAnna 's piece, above and it makes sense at a theoretical level, but I ask myself why? As I think @Fireside Ales Homebrewery pointed out, beers have been made for centuries at atmospheric pressure using open fermenters, Burton Unions and yeasts that need rousing and these are the traditional beers that we've learned to love. Did Bass purge their bottles with CO2 in Manet's day? Or is this all about making NEIPA's?

 

[DocAnna]

Or is this all about making NEIPA's?

I agree wholly with you, and in a large part I think yes this is about avoiding oxidation with closed transfer for beers that are unusually sensitive to oxidation. The rest is about fringe benefits: carbonation while fermenting and fermentation of lagers if you wish at higher temperatures. We do seem to be all agreeing with each other on this. I don't think anyone here is arguing it is necessary to use top pressure to make good beer, just that it makes certain beers easier to make.

Anna

 

[Saisonator]

Another plus to add to the list is you can ferment a full batch of lager with one packet of yeast, due to possible warmer fermentation temperature.

 

[Saisonator]

My normal process is to let the yeast get going for a day or two without any pressure, then gradually increase it.
If I'm dry hopping I usually hold it at just 5-8psi or so until fermentation is slowing down, then get the DH in, then let it rise to about 10-12psi.
If not dry hopping then I just gradually increase the pressure up to about 10-12psi.
I've not noticed any negative effects on yeast health with these relatively modest pressures, (and neither have several bjcp judges) and the benefits of O2 free packaging far outweigh any negatives IMO.
I'm not entirely sure if I get more value out of my DH by rousing, but this is a standard part of my process with hoppy beers, and I'm definitely getting an overall better hop character than I ever did before using the fermentasaurus.

When I made it to the final of the Verdant NEIPA comp last year (limited success because I didn't win) the bcjp judge told me my beer was better than the Verdant he was given to compare with the entries. I'm not saying all my beers would score 45pts in competition but the pressure fermenting can't be doing too much harm

Have you used this method for any English ale yeasts?

 

[smcc]

Have you used this method for any English ale yeasts?

I dont know why for ale yeast this would be desirable, you are suppressing ester production which typically is something you want in the flavour profile

 

[Saisonator]

I dont know why for ale yeast this would be desirable, you are suppressing ester production which typically is something you want in the flavour profile

Yep that’s why I’m asking.
I am interested in whether the first day or two is enough for ester production to have reached the desired amount before the spunding valve is activated.

 

[foxy]

Another plus to add to the list is you can ferment a full batch of lager with one packet of yeast, due to possible warmer fermentation temperature.

Problem there is, it is no longer lager. Only one way to make lager is with lagering.

 

[roboto]

Yep that’s why I’m asking.
I am interested in whether the first day or two is enough for ester production to have reached the desired amount before the spunding valve is activated.

Most ester production is done in the yeast growth phase, which I think often is complete after the first 3-4 days.

Problem there is, it is no longer lager. Only one way to make lager is with lagering.

It's semantics isn't it? Some would argue unless you make a lager with lager yeast then it's not lager, and others that if you can make a beer that approximates a lager by other means then you can call it lager because it drinks like one.

I'm not here to argue what's right or wrong but when people say they can make a lager in 10 days fermenting under pressure they typically mean the latter.

 

[dan125]

Have you used this method for any English ale yeasts?

I don't brew many English styles, but yes I use more or less the same approach to these - being a bit careful not to over carb.
I took a gold medal at 2018 Welsh National comp English Pales table with a 42 pt ordinary bitter brewed this way - using Imperial Juice which is essentially an English yeast.
I think its very easy to overdo the fruity esters in homebrewed English styles, which you very rarely see in commercial examples.

 

[Brewnaldo]

What's the average lagering time of commercial breweries these days?

 

[dan125]

And remember you still have some control over ester production with fermentation temp.... I repiched the Juice yeast into an AIPA fermented a degree or two cooler that also did respectably at the comp

 

[Saisonator]

Problem there is, it is no longer lager. Only one way to make lager is with lagering.

I thought lagering took place after fermentation?

 

[Saisonator]

I don't brew many English styles, but yes I use more or less the same approach to these - being a bit careful not to over carb.
I took a gold medal at 2018 Welsh National comp English Pales table with a 42 pt ordinary bitter brewed this way - using Imperial Juice which is essentially an English yeast.
I think its very easy to overdo the fruity esters in homebrewed English styles, which you very rarely see in commercial examples.

I am doing a Bitter tomorrow so I will wait till fermentation has almost stopped before I add pressure and probably let it rise to 10 psi.