Fermenting Question

[MEB]

I have always used a single FV for fermenting. I leave it ten days and then rack off.

I've heard a lot about racking off into a secondary. But what does this achieve? What is the theory and practise behind this?

 

[A T]

I do the same as you MEB i never seen the point of moving the beer and risking introducing nasties twice

 

[Wez]

I asked this question when I was at Batemans this week and their head brewer said he'd prefer to drop to secondary 48 hours after fermentation had started but the system they have their doesn't allow it. I'm actually going to try it on my next brew, i've heard it leads to a cleaner beer - maybe i'll drop one FV and not the other and see the difference side by side.

 

[Dunfie]

I used to do it as Graham Wheeler's book told me too but stopped when someone convinced me that it wasn't necessary (think it was DaaB).

Some yeasts ferment so quickly that you run the risk of not transferring enough yeast after 48 hours. If you do try it I would make sure the secondary was under airlock.

 

[Vossy1]

I've never done it, but I can see the reasons for it.
However, so far, I've been more than happy drinking the beers I make.
They are far superior to shop bought, and most of the time, better than pub bought, so I see no need to change

 

[Parva]

Having had three hazy all grain brews I decided to go secondary on my last brew which I am currently drinking from the cornie. The first 5 or 6 pints were pretty foggy and then it cleared up after that but still not what I would call crystal clear. Sure, it was a definite improvement over the one stage fermentation but for the hassle (and risk) involved I'm just sticking to 1 stage in future. My biggest problem is probably technique (kegging after 10 days, not chilling the FV for a day or two prior) so I'm going to concentrate on this aspect more rather than take chances with the secondary.

In short, it can make a difference but I think I'd prefer to stick to one stage in future given the risks and trouble taken just to get something a little brighter.

 

[Vossy1]

Hi P,

I had hazy brews for a long time before I came to find the solution to my problem.
They are caused for several reasons, tannin extraction, bacteria, proteins, mineral deficiencies ect.
I tried everything known to man to clear my beers, chilling, fining ect etc
Once I started mineral additions my haze problem stopped...instantly...apart from US-05...which is another subject :lol:
What sort of water do you have, ie, soft or hard?
Have you looked into the minimum amount of calcium for your brew style?

 

[Parva]

Hey V, I suspect it could well be a water problem. I've not yet looked into this as am only upto AG #5 tomorrow hopefully and have so far got by with the old Campden tablets. The water here is soft but anymore than that I cannot tell you. I've been very happy with what I've made so far despite the hazy beer and have just concentrated on getting my technique right (batch sparging temps have been an issue but getting there).

Water profile is something I will be looking at very soon as now that I am getting to grips with how it's all done I am wanting to ramp my brew days upto around the ~40l mark to fill two cornies (currently doing 23l). I'd like to nail the hazy beer if I can before I go on to brew bigger but firstly need to experiment with chilling the FV and things prior to kegging (as I have this time). Once I know that the problem is something not of my making then I'll start looking at possible problems with the water and maybe even try bottled water for a brew to see how it goes.

 

[Vossy1]

Hey P,

It's well worth getting a water report from your supplier, you may be able to do this on-line.
The reports are not that reliable regards every day brewing as the figures can vary a lot.
I personally found my water report gave me an insight into a problem I didn't even know was there ...lack of calcium!
I treated my water based on median figure, and my beer improved overnight :shock: ....seriously.

[quoteI've been very happy with what I've made so far despite the hazy beer and have just concentrated on getting my technique right (batch sparging temps have been an issue but getting there).
][/quote]

Quite right too

I'd like to nail the hazy beer if I can before I go on to brew bigger but firstly need to experiment with chilling the FV and things prior to kegging (as I have this time

Be wary of chilling your fv too soon, you may carry unwanted compounds to your finished beer before the yeast have a chance to mop them up :thumb:

 

[Parva]

This is part of the reason that I want to ramp up to 40l+ brews, as one brew is fermenting I'm getting perilously close to emptying a cornie and running low on supplies so I'm probably rushing kegging the fermented brew (typically 9 - 10 days from start). :) I need two more cornies ideally as two just isn't enough to keep up with consumption (especially when my dad comes and helps me)! I'd like my beer to be left to mature longer than a week or so ideally so two cornies are on my shopping list. :)

 

[Vossy1]

I know what you mean P :lol:
FWIW I've found AG brews can be supped after 2 weeks....some hefes don't even make it out of the fv
TBH you need to know what your demand is and have the equipment to suit.
I reckon 6 corny's is a minimum....lets see

week 1....brew 2 corny's...ready after 6 weeks...
said 2 corny's...67 pints/38ltrs last 4 weeks... :lol:
that's 10 weeks from start to finish...which means after week 4 you have to brew again
so you need a minimum of 4 corny's to ensure continual supply and demand get met :lol:

 

[Parva]

Yep, that's precisely my problem! :) Consumption is out-stripping supply and I bought a 10 gallon brewery, I need to take advantage of that! :) But to do so I need more kegs! Gonna have to sell the daughter I reckon, won't get much for the 22 year old son as he's a lazy lay about. Ok, working on funding more cornies.....

 

[steve_flack]

I asked this question when I was at Batemans this week and their head brewer said he'd prefer to drop to secondary 48 hours after fermentation had started but the system they have their doesn't allow it. I'm actually going to try it on my next brew, i've heard it leads to a cleaner beer - maybe i'll drop one FV and not the other and see the difference side by side.

Be very careful with your timings and make sure your yeast isn't too flocculant. It's pretty easy to end up with a stuck or slow ferment if you don't hit quite right. Personally I've never had any luck with dropping and I'm firmly in the 'Don't mess with it' group when it comes to secondaries as well. If the beer would otherwise be sitting on a lot of yeast for ages then maybe but even in that case don't rack too soon.

 

[Buzz]

I always rack into a secondary. It's not 'dropping' though. I just leave the beer to ferment out in the primary and, once it's done, take it off the yeast and into the secondary. I leave it in the secondary to drop bright (or as good as it gets) before going into the keg, so the chance of cloudy beer from the keg are reduced.

So long as you are careful with sanitisation and not splashing, I don't see a downside.