Fermentation time

[Piperbrew]

I have been looking at old threads and also other info of the net and noticed that fermentation times seem longer than I have had with kits beers. Would this be because I have fermented beer in my airing cupboard which is around 24c and so the time has been speeded up due to the high temperature? Or is it that the longer fermentation times I am seeing include the beer being racked into a secondary vessel?

With regards to fermentation temperature I live in an old cob cottage and the hall room normally stays around 18 -19 c ,very stable temperature. Would this be a better place to ferment beer?

 

[Pavros]

Probably yes and probably yes but it also depends on which yeasts you are using. If it's the kit yeast, then that is usually an ale type which would suit 18-20c as the best temperature range but some yeasts are good at higher temps.

I usually ferment my kits at room temperature as I don't have any temperature control. This is usually around 16 -18c but I do put my fv in a builder's trug and wrap it in blankets at this time of year so that the temperature doesn't fluctuate too much during the night.

I would have to be careful if I used my airing cupboard as it would be too warm and there would be a high possibility of off-tastes and fusel alcohols developing. That's why I prefer to ferment in the cool/cold bottom part of the yeast range rather than the upper end even if it takes a bit longer.

Leaving the brew in the fv longer than the kit instructions suggest also allows time for the yeast to start cleaning up after itself and start clearing the beer.

Edit: I didn't answer your middle question about secondary fermentation but I'm not sure how many homebrewers actually rack off into another fv for secondary - I never have.

 

[Piperbrew]

Thanks for the reply Pavros. So better to err on the cooler side then? ....would this be for all yeasts, be it they just work slower. I am guessing you cant actually do any real harm unless it get too cool? .....So I don't have to rack the beer into another vessel then? ...I always fermented in a bin then into a carboy but maybe it could just start it in the carboy....though I am guessing that there might be a bit to much foam if I use an airlock?

Cheers

Pete

 

[terrym]

First higher temperature means quicker fermentation time, but, dependant upon the yeast, the yeast induced flavours will be different, typically 'cleaner' for lower temperatures. I tend to brew lighter beers so I usually brew at about 19*C.
Next I generally rack my beers off to another FV, but only when the primary has all but completely finished. I do this simply to help clear the beer for packaging. I would guess that if you racked off before the primary had finished you would simply extend the overall fermentation time since there is less yeast about to finish things off.

 

[Piperbrew]

First higher temperature means quicker fermentation time, but, dependant upon the yeast, the yeast induced flavours will be different, typically 'cleaner' for lower temperatures. I tend to brew lighter beers so I usually brew at about 19*C.
Next I generally rack my beers off to another FV, but only when the primary has all but completely finished. I do this simply to help clear the beer for packaging. I would guess that if you racked off before the primary had finished you would simply extend the overall fermentation time since there is less yeast about to finish things off.

Yes, makes sense and I have actually done the same before after ensuring the primary has ceased. I suppose at the end of the day if I am going to the efforts of trying to make better beer by going all grain the small amount of effort to rack into a secondary is worth it as the beer is only going to improve and clear.

Cheers

 

[Zephyr259]

I have been looking at old threads and also other info of the net and noticed that fermentation times seem longer than I have had with kits beers.

What times have you seen quoted and what we're you getting with kits? Most kits recommend 4 - 6 days but we usually ferment for 2 weeks as it ensures the fermentation is finished and gives a cleaner beer. Is this the discrepancy you found?

 

[Nicks90]

I don't see how racking in to a secondary fv will produce clearer beer, it'll still settle on the trub if left for a week after the primary fermentation has finished.
I just leave mine in the primary for 2 weeks and then check over a few days if it's finished. If it has, get it bottled! I'm just careful not to jiggle the fv about when moving it to my bottling area.
Anything left will settle in the bottle anyway during secondary fermentation

 

[ExpatBrewer]

I don't see how racking in to a secondary fv will produce clearer beer, it'll still settle on the trub if left for a week after the primary fermentation has finished.

I used to wonder about this too. In the past I used to rack to a secondary and it seemed like the yeast dropped out quite quickly after doing so. However, I later stopped using a secondary after being convinced that it really wasn't necessary.

However, not too long ago I read a 'sciencey' article which talked about using gentle agitation as a way of stimulating flocculation. I now think that the act of racking to secondary was the thing that prompted the yeast to drop much quicker as I'd observed to be the case back then.

But really... does it actually matter? As someone who bottles their beer all it really meant for me was a difference of a few millimeters of sediment in the bottles. Either way I'm going to be doing a careful pour anyway so I figured it's neither here nor there.

 

[Piperbrew]

What times have you seen quoted and what we're you getting with kits? Most kits recommend 4 - 6 days but we usually ferment for 2 weeks as it ensures the fermentation is finished and gives a cleaner beer. Is this the discrepancy you found?

Yes the kits I used in the past were all as above regarding times but I did let them go a few days over.

 

[Zephyr259]

Cool, yeah kits often seem to try and sell on the back of "fast, cheap beer" when in reality the quickest brew should take 4 weeks, 2 in the fermenter and 2 in the bottle. I'm finding that most are better after another 2 weeks in the bottle at a cooler temp, which I guess is why people say the 2+2+2 method is "best."

 

[steveshep8676]

Hi Piperbrew
The two main factors why your wort is fermenting quickly is temperature which has been mentioned and the other is the use of a kit. The sugars in a kit are predominantly maltose. The sugars are fermented in a specific order, the simplest sugars are fermented first to the unfermentable dextrins. If I remember right they go in this order, Glucose, Fructose,Maltose, Maltriose, dextrins ( unfermentable). Your wort will not contain hardly any, if any at all of Maltriose so it will ferment much quicker. I would ferment at around 19c as well unless the yeast specifically says otherwise, temperature is key to a quality beer. Too high a temperature and you will be producing fusel alcohol which doesn’t taste nice at all. Hope this helps.


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[ExpatBrewer]

...which I guess is why people say the 2+2+2 method is "best."

I have to admit I seriously question this "best" method. Fermentation on a 1.040 - 1.050 OG brew takes around 4- 5 days to reach FG. I've had a 1.040 finish in 36 hours at 21ºC! Diacetyl etc is cleaned up in around 1 - 2 days. Technically the beer can be packaged after about a week and the debate then becomes whether conditioning in bulk i.e. by leaving it in the FV sitting on the yeast cake, is better for the beer rather than bottling (or kegging) immediately. I know this aspect is hotly debated like most aspects of brewing but I once heard in a podcast Dr Charlie Bamforth, Prof of Brewing Science say:

"…for an ale with a healthy yeast you really don't need or indeed want it to linger too long on the yeast cake."
"The length of time we had to leave the beer in contact with the yeast to mop up the last traces of diacetyl and pentanedione was not very long, we're talking a day or two… "
"… and once we were confident that we got those VDK's below our target then our philosophy was for goodness sake get it off the yeast."

I guess though in the commercial world there would be more of a commercial motive behind getting beer packed and on the shelves ASAP. Personally the only difference I've ever noted between 2 weeks bulk conditioning and straight to bottle is the amount of yeast sediment that ends up in the bottle. Either way though, you're probably going to take care with your pour. Carbonation tends to take a week though during the warmer months even quicker I find. If I have an 'urgent' need I can turn round a brew in about 3 weeks: 1 week brew day to bottle, then a minimum 2 weeks carbonation/conditioning. :thumb: