Fermentasaurus, Fermzilla or Fast Ferment. Which to buy?

[phildo79]

Well the pressure inside the fv had dropped to 8 psi so I set the corny to the same, attached the crap spunding and gently released. It was slow going and the gauge on the spunding was dropping to zero. I blasted the fv with 20 psi and also the keg and then did as before. Had to do that a second time. Overall it probably took an hour to transfer. Is that normal?

 

[BrewsWayne]

Before I buy one, does anyone have any suggestions as to which pressure relief valve I should buy? The one I have is winding me up. I am thinking of getting the keg land blow tie but then isn't keg land the company that makes the fermzilla? Are their relief valves as sturdy as their fermenters aren't (going by the amount of photos of broken ones)?

SPUNDit 2.0


It makes the BlowTie look like the toy it is.

 

[foxy]

Well the pressure inside the fv had dropped to 8 psi so I set the corny to the same, attached the crap spunding and gently released. It was slow going and the gauge on the spunding was dropping to zero. I blasted the fv with 20 psi and also the keg and then did as before. Had to do that a second time. Overall it probably took an hour to transfer. Is that normal?

 

[Braufather]

No they are still currently in manufacture, even with the older model you can get the conversion kit for the plunger eliminating the need for the butterfly valve. Which ever you wanted to buy, harvesting yeast is possible in all the models, just easier with the collection bottle.

any idea when it will be available in uk?

 

[phildo79]

Had a sample this afternoon after a night in the fridge. Still very green and somewhat under carbed. I think I will ferment at a higher pressure next time. Carbed it up a bit and it was more drinkable. Still very green, although it is only 8 days old.

 

[foxy]

any idea when it will be available in uk?

The 3rd Gen Fermenter Kings will be on a boat shortly, the booking has an eta into the UK of the 6th September so shortly after that :)

We're just waiting for an image and we'll get it online so we can start taking pre-orders over the phone

Brew2Bottle Home Brew | Specialist Home Brew Supplier - [email protected] - Tel: 01254 315082

 

[BrewsWayne]

KegLand FermZilla vs KegKing Fermenter King G3: Observations and Comparisons


I purchased two, 27L FermZillas from More Beer in August 2019. Problems came up right away. There were multiple difficulties with trying to get the fermenters to hold pressure. First problem was the seal from the top cap to the fermenter body.

KegLand came up with a solution that involved buying another, thicker O ring. The O ring costs $1.00 AU$ or $0.70US. MoreBeer charges $3.00US. Williams Brewing charges $0.75US. The thicker O ring makes it very hard to remove the top cap now. KegLand suggests loosening the outer ring and using a screw driver under a carb cap to pry up the top cap.

The next problem was using the stainless steel pressure kits for gas in and liquid out. They are repurposed carbonation caps. The Fermzilla does not have a large enough lip for the gasket on the SS carb cap to seal effectively. The gasket tends to fold down into the fermenter. The solution was to not use the SS caps but to buy plastic caps that do not have a gasket, using the plastic body of the cap to seal. These had to be tightened very, very tight, or they would leak. Getting them that tight would usually deform the body of the carb cap.

The caps sell at 10 for $1.95 AU$ or $1.40US each at KegLand. More Beer charges $6.00US each.

With those changes, my Fermzillas were finally able to hold pressure.

I wanted to use the Fermzillas with a glycol chiller for temperature control. I needed to buy the KegLand thermoprobe and TempTwister cooling coil. At the time, one had to drill out the lid for the FermZilla. There are spaces marked on the interior of the lid to show where to drill. KegLand has a video showing how to do this using a handheld drill. I tried this and could not get the drill to stay centered. I ended up having to use my drill press and clamps with a second lid I had to purchase.

I now see the Williams Brewing is offering a predrilled lid for the FermZilla for $6.99. MoreBeer only offers the undrilled lid for $8.99.

Finally, in December, I was able to connect the FermZillas to my glycol system and brew into them. I brewed about 20 times with them until I noticed some stress cracks forming around the top neck area. I contacted MoreBeer and they quickly sent out the new design replacement bottles. They did not come with the graduation sticker to show the volume in the fermenter. These do not have the flat top of the original FermZilla, but are more rounded.

When I went to take apart the original FermZillas to replace the bottles, one of the valve assemblies, simply would not come apart. I tried all the hints suggested in the KegLand video on how to dissasemble the FermZilla and nothing would work. I gave up and ordered a new assembly.

The other FermZilla came apart with no problem and I was able to reassemble it using minimal amounts of torque. I tested it with just pressure for 48 hours and then with water, with no leaking. However, when I was going to take off the collection chamber, I foolishly left the butterfly valve open and the handle ended up breaking the collection chamber when the carb cap hit it. I managed to destroy the other collection chamber when I, again foolishly, tried to use the SS carb caps with a different gasket. I kept tightening the cap to prevent leaking, untill the threaded assembly just broke away from the chamber. Another order went in for three collection chambers, so I would have a spare, seeing how easily they break.

I was able to start using them again, about two weeks ago.

A couple of months ago, Will Fiala, KegKing CEO, was asking if there was anyone who cared to try out the KegKing Fermenter King G3 on HBT, I contacted him and after some conversations, he arranged to have a unit shipped to me with a cooling coil included.

It took some time to arrive and I had some personal issues come up, but I finally got to brew into it this week.

Here are some comparisons between the two fermenters:

The 27L FermZilla is roughly 32" tall to the top of the carb caps. It is 14" in diameter The main body PET is roughly 2.6mm thick.

The G3 is 37" tall to the top of the thremoprobe/valve. It is roughly 14.8" in diameter. The PET is roughly 5.8mm thick.

The FermZilla cone is 45 degrees. The G3 is 60 degrees.

The top opening of the FermZilla is roughly 4.75" wide. The G3 is 3.5" wide.

The FermZilla uses a complex bottom connection to a 3" butterfly valve. The G3 is a simpler connection using a plunge valve.

The Fermzilla has a collection chamber that holds 1 liter and has the ability to add carb caps so you can release any pressure in the container before removing it. You could also use the two caps to add CO2 and purge the chamber of air before you open the valve to add dry hops of anything else.

The G3 has a 1/2 liter collection bottle. There is no ability to purge the bottle. The G3 does come with an adapter to add 2 inch Tri-Clover accessories to the bottom of the fermenter.

The FermZilla cooling coil is 6 meters total length, it is about 4.3" in diameter and 26.7 " high. It is VERY tight getting it into the FermZilla with the dip tube. The tube and float valve does get caught between the coils at times. The dip tube does pull put trub that is on the cone of the fermenter. Kegland has introduced an extension screen in Oz but it has not arrives in the states yet. The top third of the coil is above the fermenting beer.

The G3 coil is smaller than the Fermzilla, but it is angled off to the side. The plunge valve/thermo probe assembly has a ring around it the the dip tube and float attatch to. This will prevent the tube from pulling up any trub from the side of the fermenter.
I have only just brewed into the G3 this week. I can say there was no problem with the coil dropping the wort down 10 degrees within 1 hour to fermenting temp. It has held fermenting temp within 1 degree F all week.

The FermZilla is an very good concept with rather poor execution. KegLand seems to have put out a Beta version and attempted to fix the problems after the release.

The G3 took longer to come out but it has none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.

 

[foxy]

These fermenters should be withdrawn from the market, one guy with a shard from the collection bottle embedded in his neck now another guy almost loses an eye.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

Its not good seeing that at all

Its an odd one because we have sold 100s and received a lot of good feedback and only handful of issues, some first generation ones had issue leaking solved with a larger o-ring for the top lid

Dont think have had any Fermzilla Generation 2 issues from customers as of yet

@foxy I just noticed your post above ...

The 3rd Gen Fermenter Kings will be on a boat shortly, the booking has an eta into the UK of the 6th September so shortly after that :)

We're just waiting for an image and we'll get it online so we can start taking pre-orders over the phone

Brew2Bottle Home Brew | Specialist Home Brew Supplier - [email protected] - Tel: 01254 315082

So are you Brew2Bottle importing Fermentasaurus products?

 

[foxy]

Its not good seeing that at all

Its an odd one because we have sold 100s and received a lot of good feedback and only handful of issues, some first generation ones had issue leaking solved with a larger o-ring for the top lid

Dont think have had any Fermzilla Generation 2 issues from customers as of yet

@foxy I just noticed your post above ...



So are you Brew2Bottle importing Fermentasaurus products?

No, I am nothing to do with Brew2Bottle, just quoting his post.
See post 134 on this thread.

Fermentasaurus is being used by thousand of home brewers but nothing on the scale of failures of the Fermzilla. I think Brews Wayne nailed it in this paragraph:-

The FermZilla is an very good concept with rather poor execution. KegLand seems to have put out a Beta version and attempted to fix the problems after the release.

The G3 took longer to come out but it has none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.

 

[Old Geezer]

I use a bucket never had one explode yet.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

No, I am nothing to do with Brew2Bottle, just quoting his post.
See post 134 on this thread.

Fermentasaurus is being used by thousand of home brewers but nothing on the scale of failures of the Fermzilla. I think Brews Wayne nailed it in this paragraph:-

The FermZilla is an very good concept with rather poor execution. KegLand seems to have put out a Beta version and attempted to fix the problems after the release.

The G3 took longer to come out but it has none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.

ah ok, wasnt to clear from your post

I would have thought Fermzilla sales would be massively more than Fermentasaurus though due to the international sales of KegLand for years and Keg King being mostly in a smaller Australian Market. Granted am seeing a few posts where equipment suppliers are starting to import more recently, but really is only quite a recent thing this,, where as know suppliers across world been selling KegLand products and Fermzillas for quite a while

 

[Deadhead]

I'm putting aside the £ out of my pay each month that I get for donating several vials of blood from my fingers and arms (long story, usually get between £20-£40/month extra) so hopefully in a few months I will have enough saved to buy something for fermenting under pressure. I figure since it's my blood money!!, hubby won't have an objection to me spending £XXX.XX on a pressure fermenter when I have 6 plastic buckets, no pressure of course, already here that I can ferment in. Well. We'll see. If I can do oxygen free transfers and keep that gorgeous hop aroma, he'll probably be happy anyways. But usually takes some convincing first! Will watch this thread with interest.

HA, just for my own giggles really, hubby asked me today, 'What's this £40 out of the bank account today for?' (into my savings account). And I laughed and I said 'It's my blood money and I'm saving it for something I want, but you'll think is a bit silly to spend money on' and he goes 'What do you want?' and I told him about a plastic pressure fermenter or maybe even a nice stainless steel conical that is way more and will take me a year or two of blood money and he laughed and said 'Surely that equipment is not really necessary' - I laughed and said 'That's why the blood money is going into savings,so I can spend it all guilt free when there is a good pile there'. And he said 'Get both your arms out!'

 

[foxy]

ah ok, wasnt to clear from your post

I would have thought Fermzilla sales would be massively more than Fermentasaurus though due to the international sales of KegLand for years and Keg King being mostly in a smaller Australian Market. Granted am seeing a few posts where equipment suppliers are starting to import more recently, but really is only quite a recent thing this,, where as know suppliers across world been selling KegLand products and Fermzillas for quite a while

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, the Fermentasaurus has been in circulation for 3 1/2 years the FermZilla 1 year there are far more Fermentasaurus being used (without the issues seen on Facebook) each Fermentasaurus is tested as it leaves the blow moulder, not so with the FermZilla. So if one was going by the issues being reported on Facebook one could be forgiven in believing there were more FermZillas than Fermentasaurus.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, the Fermentasaurus has been in circulation for 3 1/2 years the FermZilla 1 year there are far more Fermentasaurus being used (without the issues seen on Facebook) each Fermentasaurus is tested as it leaves the blow moulder, not so with the FermZilla. So if one was going by the issues being reported on Facebook one could be forgiven in believing there were more FermZillas than Fermentasaurus.

Yes, I think we first ordered them just over a year ago now and now ordering 2nd Generation Fermzilla with 100s sold. All the other UK suppliers probably similar, there are much bigger suppliers here than us selling Fermzillas

But do see all the big known suppliers in America, suppliers across Europe and UK, possibly elsewhere in the world all sell KegLand products and Fermzilla. So really was about the difference between that huge international market compared to those sold mostly just into Australia over that whole period

Don't have their sales figures so who knows, could be wrong but I would have thought there are much more Fermzillas sold..dont you?

 

[foxy]

Yes, I think we first ordered them just over a year ago now and now ordering 2nd Generation Fermzilla with 100s sold. All the other UK suppliers probably similar, there are much bigger suppliers here than us selling Fermzillas

But do see all the big known suppliers in America, suppliers across Europe and UK, possibly elsewhere in the world all sell KegLand products and Fermzilla. So really was about the difference between that huge international market compared to those sold mostly just into Australia over that whole period

Don't have their sales figures so who knows, could be wrong but I would have thought there are much more Fermzillas sold..dont you?

No Fermentasaurus was released at the beginning of 2017 and went all over the world so I would say more of those have been sold than FermZilla. The other thing is, as an importer selling the FermZilla the importer is deemed to be the manufacturer. If there is a serious injury, (2 near misses so far) it comes back onto the importer, not the manufacturer.
Pretty much like the Perlick / Keg Land situation going on at the moment over the patent infringements, its the sellers and wholesalers who are having to pay royalties for the Intertap flow control.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

Just a point making on quantities sold and how I see it. Can disagree and leave that there and avoid going down the whole kegland/keg king rat hole

 

[samale]

Maybe this has been asked before but @foxy what is your involvement in the business. You seem to have a very strong opinion siding for one side. I have no experience of any of the products.

 

[foxy]

Maybe this has been asked before but @foxy what is your involvement in the business. You seem to have a very strong opinion siding for one side. I have no experience of any of the products.

I know both parties involved with the running of both companies, one is honest and above board the other has no scruples. Only last week KL was reported to consumer affairs for lifting unrelated reviews off Amazon and other places and putting the reviews against their product. They have even lifted literature from King Keg pressure barrels, and put it with their King Keg product, didn't even bother to change the gallons to litres.
As I said about the Perlick taps and KL infringing their patent, doesn't matter to them that sellers of the Intertap Flow Control are now having to pay out royalties or face hefty legal bills trying to defend it.
Defaming John Guest fittings, until John Guest forced them to print a retraction.

 

[AngelHomebrew.]

thanks foxy, think that provides useful insight where your coming from

Dont want to get into the KegLand/Keg King debate, and all the bad naming product stuff, seen it before elsewhere ending up in pages of bulls@t most not interested in and nothing really useful

Wonder if worth creating a separate post and those who are interested in reading about that stuff and commenting can talk about it... till they have lost the will to live