Favorite Yeast for brewing Real Ale

[marshbrewer]

Pretty sure they repackage. Might be wrong.

 

[jeg3]

Wy1318 - London Ale III is very popular, so I've got a pack on order.

What is forum opinion at fermenting temperature with this yeast? What are the characteristics of say 19-20 vs 22-23?

I've been using my brew fridge for quite a while now and have a nice new shiny Ss Brewbucket to have a go at something. It will be all pale malt with probably challenger or target as bittering and either challenger or fuggles for aroma as that is all I have

 

[Oneflewover]

Wy1318 - London Ale III is very popular, so I've got a pack on order.

What is forum opinion at fermenting temperature with this yeast? What are the characteristics of say 19-20 vs 22-23?

I've been using my brew fridge for quite a while now and have a nice new shiny Ss Brewbucket to have a go at something. It will be all pale malt with probably challenger or target as bittering and either challenger or fuggles for aroma as that is all I have

Love this yeast, really characterful, drops clear and is reliable. I tend to start fermentation at the lower end of the range and increase to the upper end as fermentation progresses

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Dry yeasts are "OK" but I think for best results you need to get a good liquid strain on this as it will be superior

+1 to that - the dry strains are OK, but they generally lack the character of the best British cask strains. And it may seem obvious, but scrounging the real thing from the dregs of casks at your local pub can be a great way to go - I think my favourite so far is Jaipur dregs - which supposedly came to Thornbridge from Holt's via Kelham Island and went from there to Buxton, Brewdog (at least for Punk and Jackhammer) and others, so it has some form. But most of the ones I've tried from trad breweries have been pretty good in their different ways - and you know that proper cask strains will drop like a rock!

Also harvest from bottles - we have a separate thread for that, but Proper Job and Fuller's 1845/Lancer are the obvious choices, both work well. And the Adnams minicasks if you can find them (Broadside, Bitter and some seasonals) which have the production dual strain, but not the minikegs like Ghost Ship.

After that, Brewlab is probably the best choice, particularly the likes of F40 and CC, but these days they're trying to avoid dealing with retail punters although they do show up at Brewcon, I don't know if they're still selling a few strains via Hop & Grape - looks like it. They're generally much more interesting than the US homebrew yeasts, but they come as slopes so you need to grow them up.

As for Wyeast and White Labs, they're OK, but many of their strains were passed around the homebrew community for several years before they were banked, so some may have had labels mixed up along the way, and they definitely seem to have lost some character. For instance, it's often claimed that WLP002 and 1968 are from Fuller's, but they lack the marmalade that is so typical of the "real" Fuller's yeast - whereas apparently Imperial A09 Pub still has it, and is meant to be one of the better homebrew yeasts for this style. Or if you really want "orange" then maybe Voss (either liquid or the Lallemand/MJ/CML dry version) fermented warm but not too warm?

But lots of the less well known Wyeast/WL yeasts work well enough - although I have yet to try it, from what I read then the rare Vault strain WLP038 Manchester may be the best of them - it's a member of the saison family and slightly phenolic, as so many "real" British strains are like eg Harvey's. And if we're talking weird rare Vault strains, then WLP050 Tennessee Whiskey (yes really) is fun - a rare POF- distilling strain with some nice floral aromas which can go up to 15% ABV. 1469 is one of the best of the mainstream strains, also a lot of people like WLP028 Edinburgh as a fairly clean house yeast for British styles.

One strain that is British despite the name is WLP041 Pacific which probably represents an isolate of the Gale's yeast taken to the US and just makes really drinkable pints, well worth a go. But otherwise - all those in the WLP02x and WLP03x ranges are worth a try to see how you get on with them, even if it's a question of grabbing them as they come out of the Vault.

Fans of 1318 may want to note that the new Lallemand Verdant is a dry version of a derivative of 1318 and people seem pretty happy with it in bitter - it is notorious for a certain vanilla flavour with some people, which may be an interaction with too much maize or wheat in the grist boosting levels of ferulic acid.

if I am willing to pay £3.80+ for a pint of cask ale in a pub why an I getting so worked up over the prospect of paying £7-£8 for a vial of yeast that will make 18 pints (I do 9L batches).

Well quite - and British styles are one where it's worth the premium, whereas it's perhaps less worth it for US styles where dry US-05 and equivalents do a good enough job compared to the liquid ones in most cases. Also worth mentioning that repitching will help reduce the ££ per batch, although I wouldn't typically go more than 6-8 repitches.

Do MJ manufacture their own yeasts or repackage other manufacturers products?

According to this chart S-04 and Liberty Bell are the same strain. And on the few occasions I've used either of them I had the same problems of low attenuation and high acetaldehyde that had to age out. Might just be a coincidence though.

Never had those problems in my bitters using London Ale III (current favourite) or Lallemand Windsor (a pain to clear). I like Notty in crisp golden ales in the summer, but probably wouldn't use it in a bitter. Unfortunately there aren't that many English strains available here in Austria, I'll have to order some.

Yep, Dave Taylor's chart is probably the least bad guide to yeast equivalence, it's certainly a lot better than the Mr Malty one. General thought seems to be that Liberty Bell isn't S-04, may well be the Mauri Ale or something like that, it's one of the few Mangrove Jack strains where it's not really obvious which they're repackaging (and yes CC, they just repackage, in their plant in Ellesmere Port). A lot of them are repackaged Lallemands, but not all of them.

Windsor is a classic example of a yeast that drops well but doesn't flocculate well. So it can produce very clear beer, but if you disturb it at all it "puffs up" easily, so isn't a great choice eg if keg-conditioning. OTOH, a classic combination is to start fermentation with Windsor for the flavour, then add a bit of Nottingham at high krausen to help drop out the Windsor (you only need one strain that flocculates well to drop out all of them).

What's the Lallemand London dry like?

Genetically it's a relative of the S-33/Muntons Ordinary/Windsor group that probably derived from the old EDME homebrew yeast, but it's a bit blander - not sure what's the point. There's an extensive thread about London on HBT.

I’ve had the best results with MJ M42 New world strong. Really brought the hoppy flavours out in a galaxy pale I did recently

Classic example of MJ repackaging - M42 is almost certainly repackaged Nottingham. Also worth mentioning that Munton's Gold and the Wilko beer yeast look very similar to Notty - and at £2/11g, the Gervin English Ale yeast at Wilko is probably the cheapest version.

But if you want cheap, then the Allinson's bread yeast seems to work OK in beer - don't listen to US brewers who obviously have different bread yeasts.

One other thought - as mentioned above, a lot of traditional British yeasts are in fact [Edit, left a bit out!] a bit phenolic, so T-58 works fairly well, you might even consider something like Belle Saison either on its own or in a blend, fermented on the cool side.

Put bottle back in fridge with a tin foil cap until ready to harvest but within a day or two.

Personally I wouldn't let it hang around if possible, it's better to get it going ASAP IMO. But you can do the first step in the original bottle, just add the DME and cooled-boiled water.

 

[marshbrewer]

General thought seems to be that Liberty Bell isn't S-04, may well be the Mauri Ale

That's interesting, as CML Beior / Celtic, which is my other go to yeast, is apparently Mauri Draft. Its funny they don't get more coverage over here.

I can 2nd that it's worth propagating from a bottle of 'real ale'. Some of the best beers I did over lockdown 1 were using yeast grown up from Wye Valley Butty Bach. It's a neutral yeast, so you might think, whats the point, but it didn't half make good beers. I made a cracking light mild with it. Was drinking it within 2 weeks, and not because I was desperate, but because it finished and dropped clear wthin one, carbed up and dropped clear again within the second. And it tasted really, really, 'pubby'.

My brewing schedule is so intermittent and random at the moment that I just can't use liquid yeast, however, next year things should settle down and I am hoping to be able to move onto a couple of house liquid strains (probably wye valley plus something more characterful such as fullers / Shep neame etc)

 

[Wiener Blut]

Windsor is a classic example of a yeast that drops well but doesn't flocculate well. So it can produce very clear beer, but if you disturb it at all it "puffs up" easily, so isn't a great choice eg if keg-conditioning. OTOH, a classic combination is to start fermentation with Windsor for the flavour, then add a bit of Nottingham at high krausen to help drop out the Windsor (you only need one strain that flocculates well to drop out all of them).

Now this is interesting, I hadn't heard of that technique yet. Will definitely try that some time, as I generally liked the character of the last Bitter I made with Windsor, but it was just a little too yeasty from the yeast that must have been roused up.

But if you want cheap, then the Allinson's bread yeast seems to work OK in beer - don't listen to US brewers who obviously have different bread yeasts.

That had me thinking. Here in Austria in some supermarkets they sell fresh bakers yeast from the Ottakringer brewery, I wonder what kind of yeast that is. It won't be their main yeast, as they brew mainly lagers, but they do have some top fermenting beers from time to time.

 

[Justin Dean]

What ever suits the brew I am doing

 

[An Ankoù]

Thank you Northern Brewer, another epic survey full of interesting stuff
and inspiring experimentation.

But if you want cheap, then the Allinson's bread yeast seems to work OK in beer - don't listen to US brewers who obviously have different bread yeasts.

I had already thought of trying one of these dried bread yeasts and I've got a couple of fresh, unopened tins of Allison's. I love a bready taste in beer although I'm not expecting a great flocculation.

And the Adnams minicasks if you can find them (Broadside, Bitter and some seasonals) which have the production dual strain, but not the minikegs like Ghost Ship.

I beg to differ. I emailed Adnam's to ask them whether Ghost Ship used a different yeast in the keg and was told that no additional yeast was added, but that the beer was filtered and "there was no yeast in it". Not so! I ran off the first 250ml from a new keg and cultured it up. It started surprisingly rapidly and I've no reason to believe I haven't got both strains. I've used a first generation of that original culture and it still makes good beer. Henceforth, I'll reculture from the original bottles I made for fear of losing the mix (if I have it). I've got another keg unopened, so I can repeat the experiment, and another two on the way.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's interesting, as CML Beior / Celtic, which is my other go to yeast, is apparently Mauri Draft. Its funny they don't get more coverage over here.

I hadn't heard that about Beoir but makes sense, M36 seems pretty generally popular among those who try it as does Beoir. Thing with Mauri is that it costs money to have significant presence, and they don't really have enough of an offer to make it worthwhile, but would make sense to have it white labelled by their fellow antipodeans Mangrove Jack. But we don't know for certain - give me a chance to place an online order and have a day in a lab and I could tell for near-certain though!!

Now this is interesting, I hadn't heard of that technique yet.

Quite common here, the likes of Dark Star use blends of dry yeast for most of their beers.

Here in Austria in some supermarkets they sell fresh bakers yeast from the Ottakringer brewery, I wonder what kind of yeast that is. It won't be their main yeast, as they brew mainly lagers, but they do have some top fermenting beers from time to time.

May well be lager yeast - most commercial lagers are brewed with members of the Frohberg group of yeasts such as 34/70, which works fine for making CO2 at room temperature. Ale yeast is happiest growing at temperatures of ~30C, lager only a little lower (and Frohbergs really not much lower, see Fermentis), we ferment wort at low temperatures to reduce off-flavours but for bread we just need yeast to be happy.

I've got a couple of fresh, unopened tins of Allison's. I love a bready taste in beer although I'm not expecting a great flocculation.

Flocced fine for me - could well be a beer yeast. Can't remember which one I used, think it may have been the Easy Bake - I've got a record somewhere.

I beg to differ. I emailed Adnam's to ask them whether Ghost Ship used a different yeast in the keg and was told that no additional yeast was added, but that the beer was filtered and "there was no yeast in it". Not so! I ran off the first 250ml from a new keg and cultured it up.

Fair play, might be worth noting that on the harvesting thread if you haven't already. I know Fergus has said that the supermarkets don't like the minicasks as they...get a bit lively... at ambient temperatures of 20C or more, so they tend to only send them to local ones where they know they won't sit on the shelf too long.

 

[trueblue]

+1 to that - the dry strains are OK, but they generally lack the character of the best British cask strains. And it may seem obvious, but scrounging the real thing from the dregs of casks at your local pub can be a great way to go - I think my favourite so far is Jaipur dregs - which supposedly came to Thornbridge from Holt's via Kelham Island and went from there to Buxton, Brewdog (at least for Punk and Jackhammer) and others, so it has some form. But most of the ones I've tried from trad breweries have been pretty good in their different ways - and you know that proper cask strains will drop like a rock!


As for Wyeast and White Labs, they're OK, but many of their strains were passed around the homebrew community for several years before they were banked, so some may have had labels mixed up along the way, and they definitely seem to have lost some character. For instance, it's often claimed that WLP002 and 1968 are from Fuller's, but they lack the marmalade that is so typical of the "real" Fuller's yeast - whereas apparently Imperial A09 Pub still has it, and is meant to be one of the better homebrew yeasts for this style. Or if you really want "orange" then maybe Voss (either liquid or the Lallemand/MJ/CML dry version) fermented warm but not to

Also worth mentioning that repitching will help reduce the ££ per batch, although I wouldn't typically go more than 6-8 repitches.

I have been re-using 3 whitlabs and 1 wyeast strains for a couple of years, so much for liquid yeast being more expensive, and they still work great providing you make the correct size starter. I think over time they have improved. I recently saw the maltmiller was selling some different yeast so I have bought Omega and Imperial strains from him, first yeast I have bought in over 2 years, and first impressions are I am very impressed although I have only done a couple of brews so far.

 

[Wiener Blut]

May well be lager yeast - most commercial lagers are brewed with members of the Frohberg group of yeasts such as 34/70, which works fine for making CO2 at room temperature. Ale yeast is happiest growing at temperatures of ~30C, lager only a little lower (and Frohbergs really not much lower, see Fermentis), we ferment wort at low temperatures to reduce off-flavours but for bread we just need yeast to be happy.

I looked it up and it's actually Sacch. cervisiae. Looks like it's produced by Lallemand, who have a plant here in Vienna too.

Might just try it some day for the hell of it.

 

[bobukbrewer]

So can I use my sourdough starter to make a Citra SMASH beer..........

 

[saccharomyces]

I looked it up and it's actually Sacch. cervisiae. Looks like it's produced by Lallemand, who have a plant here in Vienna too.

Might just try it some day for the hell of it.

W-34/70 is a Saccharomyces pastorianus yeast strain. In fact, it is the type strain for the Frohberg family of yeast stains, having originated at the Frohberg brewery in Grimma, Saxony.

 

[Wiener Blut]

Yes, sorry. I meant to say that it's definitely not the brewery's house strain then. Might have been historically, but looks like it's now just a standard baking yeast selected for baking specifically.

 

[St00]

I've used Wyeast 1028 London and WLP013 London for ESBs, 1469 Yorkshire for a Landlord Clone and Bedford British Ale Yeast for my Arsend Bitter. I love the Landlord yeast, but I like to mash higher for a tad more mouthfeel and body as it tends to finish drier than the commercial beer. I wouldn't use anything other than the 1028 for my ESBs now as I found the WLP013 London far too neutral and characterless. The Bedford Ale Yeast was a real surprise to me as I knew nothing about it, it was on special as it was coming close to it's end date and the beer ended up being delicious.

I pitched a light Barleywine on the WLP013 London trub, but I haven't tried it yet as it's bulk ageing in a carboy.

 

[marshbrewer]

Is the Bedford ale yeast from Charles Wells?

 

[St00]

Is the Bedford ale yeast from Charles Wells?

I believe it is, but I only discovered that after looking it up after using it. It's definitely unique and as much so as the Yorkshire & London strains.

 

[micklupulo]

I have just used Wilko Gervin in an attempt at AG Wye Valley HPA and am a bit puzzled by its performance though think the result will be ok. I chose that yeast because I understand that it is Nottingham which works at lower temperatures as this time I had to use an unheated utility room. About 12°C and fermentation at 15°C.The OG was 1047 and after a week it was down to 1015 and stayed the same for a further nine days. As the beer was crystal clear with no sweetness I have just bottled it. The yeast had dropped but looked a bit weird and the beer in the bottles is the clearest I have ever bottled. Pictures of both attached. I just wonder if this normal.

 

[Ben034]

I have just used Wilko Gervin in an attempt at AG Wye Valley HPA and am a bit puzzled by its performance though think the result will be ok. I chose that yeast because I understand that it is Nottingham which works at lower temperatures as this time I had to use an unheated utility room. About 12°C and fermentation at 15°C.The OG was 1047 and after a week it was down to 1015 and stayed the same for a further nine days. As the beer was crystal clear with no sweetness I have just bottled it. The yeast had dropped but looked a bit weird and the beer in the bottles is the clearest I have ever bottled. Pictures of both attached. I just wonder if this normal.View attachment 47078View attachment 47079

Is that swing top square? Are they meant to handle pressure?

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Get that bottle in the dark immediately, it's going bad before my eyes.