Eu result!
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Dutto
Landlord.
Why not?
Everyone seems to be forgetting that we have already had TWO referendums! :whistle::whistle:
Dutto
Landlord.
I presume that the "Dr Fox" mentioned in the report is the same Dr Liam Fox as this one:
Fox was forced to resign after it was revealed that his very close friend had been attending government meetings and toting for business in his private capacity as a commercial representative.
It stunk then and it still stinks to those who remember what Fox was doing so I advise one and all to inspect any Trade Deals that Dr Fox is involved in to see which of his friends benefit; as they surely will.
"On 14 October 2011 Fox resigned from his office as Secretary of State for Defence,
for breaking the ministerial code by letting Adam Werritty into defence meetings."
for breaking the ministerial code by letting Adam Werritty into defence meetings."
Fox was forced to resign after it was revealed that his very close friend had been attending government meetings and toting for business in his private capacity as a commercial representative.
It stunk then and it still stinks to those who remember what Fox was doing so I advise one and all to inspect any Trade Deals that Dr Fox is involved in to see which of his friends benefit; as they surely will.
I let's be worried because he is doing this off his own back and no one else is involved 
..........
Wrong then and wrong now
I couldn't even pick a side on this referendum but it is done, IMO the GE has been rigged by the big two for years as it is..
What has annoyed me is the huge amount of critisim older people have got, More older people voted to remain than younger people did..
Whether or not in 10 years Britain will be better of or not we shall see but the country has picked..
Dutto
Landlord.
I am often wrong but this isn't one of them!
The FIRST referendum was held on the 5th June 1975 when the voters of the UK voted to confirm that they wished to stay as members in what was then called the European Community.
This was after Edward Heath had taken the UK into the EC in 1973 without a referendum. The nay sayers already wanted to leave after only two years and they were shocked rigid that the 1975 referendum confirmed the UK's membership; the vote at that time (on a 65% turnout) being 67% in favour of membership and only 33% preferring to leave.
The fact that since the 1975 referendum our politicians have failed us miserably in our negotiations with Europe in no way detracts from the fact that the recent referendum was the SECOND referendum. Sorry.
Are you just being pedantic for the sake of it? That was 6 years before I was even born.. What we had back then is different to what we have today.. Whether or not we have had a vote on it back in the mid 70s is not relevant now because what you have back then and what we voted for now are not the same thing..
Heck if I wish to engage in the pedantic arguments I could argue there was no EU in 1975.. but it is a pointless point..
Just to also add it up the ECC vote in 1975 , people under the age of 50 today would be ineligible to vote or not alive. I don't think it is fair to say this is everyones second bite of the cherry already..
Heck if I wish to engage in the pedantic arguments I could argue there was no EU in 1975.. but it is a pointless point..
Just to also add it up the ECC vote in 1975 , people under the age of 50 today would be ineligible to vote or not alive. I don't think it is fair to say this is everyones second bite of the cherry already..
Dutto
Landlord.
No, I'm not being pedantic and I can well believe that many of the people who voted to leave the EU were not around in the years leading up to the first Referendum; and as I also pointed out the EU was then known as the European Community.
Because many people were "not even born" they have absolutely no idea what it is like to live with inflation at 23% (check out the chart for 1973) ...
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5720/economics/inflation-stats-and-graphs/
... and the corresponding "Three Day Week" that the inflation and poor governance brought with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week
I believe that most of the stability that has been the feature of UK life for the last 40 years is down to our membership of the EC/EU.
I dearly hope that I live long enough to see the milk and honey life promised by the Brexit Brigade but history is on my side and I don't have any confidence that they will be able to deliver on their promises.
BTW when someone is right in their argument they are not being "pedantic" they are being "accurate"!
When someone (I think chippy) mentioned about not having a second referendum you pointed out this was.. its a non relevant issue.. I pointed out it was being pedantic and I stand by it, it was not the same circumstances not the same organisation and most people were not alive or eligible to vote on it.. I also see it a non relevant point..
Yes I know us Millennials haven't lived an all that.. I couldn't even vote on the issue because I thought both parties behaved disgustingly so.. remain just as bad as leave.. However I look at it I don't think we are in good hands because the politicians of this country have let us down..
But I accept it is done and we have to move on.. You have your opinion and others have theirs.. I don't know how old you are but I find a lot of people older than me parents and inlaws do not share your feelings for the EU and how it has evolved and the direction it was heading in... I am not saying they are right but their experiences and their point of view.. I am not even saying I agree with a lot of what they say.. some things I do some things I do not tbh. For the record they are not as far as I know unintelligent racists xenephonbes.. they also never voted based on the promised of 350 million ect, they are wise enough to see through the BS being spat out from all directions.. I think the way they have been judged by the bitter remainers has been appalling..
I think people need to accept the result and move on, without being funny or nasty or judgmental to one another.. I hope to god we do not have another vote on this, this has been damaging to people as it is people being at each others throats just because they share a different view.
Yes I know us Millennials haven't lived an all that.. I couldn't even vote on the issue because I thought both parties behaved disgustingly so.. remain just as bad as leave.. However I look at it I don't think we are in good hands because the politicians of this country have let us down..
But I accept it is done and we have to move on.. You have your opinion and others have theirs.. I don't know how old you are but I find a lot of people older than me parents and inlaws do not share your feelings for the EU and how it has evolved and the direction it was heading in... I am not saying they are right but their experiences and their point of view.. I am not even saying I agree with a lot of what they say.. some things I do some things I do not tbh. For the record they are not as far as I know unintelligent racists xenephonbes.. they also never voted based on the promised of 350 million ect, they are wise enough to see through the BS being spat out from all directions.. I think the way they have been judged by the bitter remainers has been appalling..
I think people need to accept the result and move on, without being funny or nasty or judgmental to one another.. I hope to god we do not have another vote on this, this has been damaging to people as it is people being at each others throats just because they share a different view.
Delmol
Active Member
It was more than just the EU referendum.
It was a vote of no confidence in modern politics and globalisation.
The benefits are kept to the few, despite being told how much prosperity the current system give us, most of us are stuck paying 60%+ of our wages on rent, with the rest going on food and council tax.
For us millenials the future is dire. Very little chance of owning a house, very little job prospects, wages are stagnant.
So we are in exactly the same position as we were and have been for years will this change over the coming months/years i don't know and no one else does either.
HebridesRob
Landlord.
I see no reason to back down, there's always opposition and there's always a debate. It's part of democracy. People wanting to leave wouldn't have given up campaigning if they lost by 2% (or 20% for that matter).
Anyway, an economic report from pre-referendum...
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit02.pdf
And an article after the announcement of the new cabinet. I found the comments at the end more interesting than the article.
https://next.ft.com/content/e6bd2dee-4cd3-11e6-8172-e39ecd3b86fc
HebridesRob
Landlord.
And all of that potentially far worse in our new, deregulated, economy. It's highly likely we'll lose the working time directive and, possibly, the minimum wage for instance. Human Rights Act will likely go down the pan as well.
Without the European Union trade block behind them it could be that the UK farming industry will disintegrate, undercut by much cheaper foreign imports from all those countries queuing up to trade with us. So, even the food we eat could be produced by globalised big business with no choice of anything else, never mind the quality and production standards. Similar could happen to what's left of our manufacturing industry and with the possibility of our finance industry moving to Germany or Holland in order to stay inside the European trading block and even the "knowledge economy" possibly undermined by loss of EU grants to universities our future could really be much, much, bleaker than the Remainers were painting it. Look up news on Venezuela if you want to know what happens to a country that needs to import most of it's food and doesn't have the money to pay for it.
Never mind, we could always migrate, like all those Eastern Europeans.
...oh!
That's fair enough wanting to voicing your opinion I get that but having another vote? where do we end? if we have another one and remain win, maybe leave should call for best of 3.. general election ran every month.. Sureley there has to be a cut off point..isn't it the result that is the democratic answer?
I don't actually know why I am arguing this, I didn't vote their because I thought they were both a shambles..
HebridesRob
Landlord.
The answer is, don't have referenda.
Anyway I am keeping out of this thread now, I don't actually have a dog in this fight
HebridesRob
Landlord.
Nor me, really. I voted to leave as a tactical vote, to create a situation where we can have another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Quite a few people in Scotland did.
Another reason not to have referenda, people vote for perverse reasons and not for what they believe in.
Possibly an argument for ensuring that any vote to change a status quo requires a significant majority vote to effect a change. I think some referenda/voting systems already include such conditions.
Too late now obviously.
I think whatever the result the outcome was going to be divisive. I can't imagine the Brexiteers would be acting very much differently had the result gone the other way.
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