Electric cars.

[JockyBrewer]

The datum of a cars value and level of wear and tear with ICE cars was always mileage...higher mileage cars were worth less and assumed to be less reliable and more likely to cause additional running costs, but for BEV's maybe mileage is a metric that has zero relevance or utility in assessing how good a car is and we need to look at something like charge cycles, or some ratio of slow charge cycles to fast charge cycles or something else to really understand the overall condition of a BEV.

This is a really good point.

ICE cars have lots of moving parts, so mileage matters. For a BEVs the relationship doesn't disappear as more mileage means more charge cycles which we know 'wears' the battery, but there's also other factors about age, temperature, speed of charge, and how long a car stays at very high or very low charge.

I fully expect a standard for battery 'State of Health' to be established at some point, with that being one of the metrics provided alongside mileage when selling a car.

It's like a lot of other things in this area where new ways of doing things will be found.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Looking at my local Shell station they have plenty of room and could fit 3-4 times as many chargers as they have pumps right now.

Surely a lot of that space will be taken by the new facilities needed to keep the EV owners occupied while they wait for their cars to be charged.

For example Shell's first location for this was in Fulham, West London. It has about 12x 175kW chargers, so if you have a car that can charge at higher rates you're going to be done in 15-20 minutes max.
And we already have more public chargers than petrol pumps,<SNIP>

People don't want to use public chargers they want to use cheap lecky at home public chargers are a last resort when there is no other option, people that cannot charge at home may as well stick to their ICE cars.

 

[Nicks90]

Well that is one car and despite that Tesla for sure warn against constant fast charging and people I know with non teslas are seeing massive battery degradation in cars that are only a year or two old. Some brands are worse than others, but in some cases they're seeing as much as 10% battery degradation in one year from new - now of course ICE cars see degradation in efficiency over use and wear and tear but not as much as 10% year on year..maybe 10% over 100k miles - I ran a 20 year old Porsche some time ago and after a good compression test and leak down test at just over 100k miles the results were that the engine had only just been broken in so as far as the engine was concerned just beginning its really useful service life. And keeping tabs on some of the YouTubers who buy old high mileage cars and seeing how much they cost to run, whenever they buy a high mileage Tesla in almost all cases the battery is knackered and often either requires changing at around £15k cost (which might still be worth it depending on how much you bought the car for in the first place) or just putting up with really crap battery performance.

The datum of a cars value and level of wear and tear with ICE cars was always mileage...higher mileage cars were worth less and assumed to be less reliable and more likely to cause additional running costs, but for BEV's maybe mileage is a metric that has zero relevance or utility in assessing how good a car is and we need to look at something like charge cycles, or some ratio of slow charge cycles to fast charge cycles or something else to really understand the overall condition of a BEV.

Yes but no but yes
It's complicated
All new battery packs suffer excess degradation in the first year, but then it tails off significantly for the rest of its life. And secondly it's the battery management system and software the ultimately dictates battery longevity when cycling through many hundreds of charge cycles at varying powera. This is possibly why teslas see less issue than other brands, as they are a technology company that happens to build cars, and not a car company that develops tech. And one thing they have nailed is managing battery charging, levelling charge rate across the cells and managing thermal load.
Their BMS system has already been licensed to other manufacturers - biggest being BYD in exchange for their blade battery IP for use in new Tesla's - and is a serious revenue earner.

This is why your phone is shagged out after 2 years, it has almost no BMS to speak of as battery longevity is not in the manufacturer best interest. But it is for a car - just how successfully someone like Merc or VAG can do it is often called in to question

 

[Alastair70]

This is a really good point.

ICE cars have lots of moving parts, so mileage matters. For a BEVs the relationship doesn't disappear as more mileage means more charge cycles which we know 'wears' the battery, but there's also other factors about age, temperature, speed of charge, and how long a car stays at very high or very low charge.

I fully expect a standard for battery 'State of Health' to be established at some point, with that being one of the metrics provided alongside mileage when selling a car.

It's like a lot of other things in this area where new ways of doing things will be found.

I’m about to get a first hand experience of this.
Unfortunately, I have to change the Model 3 to something my wife can get in and out of. I can’t remember the purchase price in late 2019, somewhere sound the 52k mark, It’s done just south of 110k miles but is pretty good nick.
I’m expecting somewhere between 20 and 25 grand on the trade in, but we’ll see.