Electric cars.

[Larse]

These are figures for a modern diesel so as the guy says if you cannot charge from home you would be better off with a modern diesel.

View attachment 106257

It's funny that these always discount the cost of servicing and repairs. The last few years of my diesel car ownership from a 1 year old car with low mileage, I've never got out of a service for less than €500. The last year I had it, it cost over a grand in servicing and repairs. Always with the main dealer until I discovered that they hadn't actually done work they should have. Like replacing the glow plugs which caused a DPF failure and an expensive clean.

Meanwhile I have another 18 months of free servicing on my EV

Won't be going back to diesel. Ever.

 

[old dog new tricks]

These are figures for a modern diesel so as the guy says if you cannot charge from home you would be better off with a modern diesel.

View attachment 106257

Its a bit more complicated depends on mileage and type of use about town a diesel is not good where as an EV is VERY efficient all the low speed and regen opportunities makes a difference.

Ad blue needs to be considered a well

Depends won what your local charging options are I have a local cafe in an industrial estate has 50kw charger 40 per Kwh its almsost as chap as home charging and quick , rerun the figures at that value and its a different outcome.

Servicing for an EV is cheaper than ICE

Not saying the AA figures are wrong but everyone's circumstances and options will be different so need to work it out given your own needs and options.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

It's funny that these always discount the cost of servicing and repairs. The last few years of my diesel car ownership from a 1 year old car with low mileage, I've never got out of a service for less than €500. The last year I had it, it cost over a grand in servicing and repairs. Always with the main dealer until I discovered that they hadn't actually done work they should have. Like replacing the glow plugs which caused a DPF failure and an expensive clean.
Meanwhile I have another 18 months of free servicing on my EV
Won't be going back to diesel. Ever.

On the flip side i owned a Corsa 1.3 diesel for 6 years i ran it every day to work (good blast on dual carriageway) and never had any problem with the DPF or major breakdowns my servicing was around £200 in local garage.

There is no way you can run a BEV without home charging cheaper than a modern diesel if you think i and the guy in the video are wrong i would love to see the figures you have.

 

[old dog new tricks]

On the flip side i owned a Corsa 1.3 diesel for 6 years i ran it every day to work (good blast on dual carriageway) and never had any problem with the DPF or major breakdowns my servicing was around £200 in local garage.

There is no way you can run a BEV without home charging cheaper than a modern diesel if you think i and the guy in the video are wrong i would love to see the figures you have.

With out home charging I would agree the small 1.3 diesel would be the cheaper option.

depending on your area public charging may be available cheaper than you think Glasgow city rates 40p per Kwh,
Also see a small number of local authority run chargers offer off peak public charging at 27p per Kwh that starts to make it viable.

If the government is serious about this then enforce off peak pricing and remove VAT on public chargers and it becomes a more level playing field, but stillt o happen

 

[Chippy_Tea]

If the government is serious about this then enforce off peak pricing and remove VAT on public chargers and it becomes a more level playing field, but stillt o happen

They are going to have to do something about the price of charging as they are going to eventually force the residents of 9 million homes into EV ownership as ICE cars become rare or too expensive to run.

 

[Larse]

On the flip side i owned a Corsa 1.3 diesel for 6 years i ran it every day to work (good blast on dual carriageway) and never had any problem with the DPF or major breakdowns my servicing was around £200 in local garage.

There is no way you can run a BEV without home charging cheaper than a modern diesel if you think i and the guy in the video are wrong i would love to see the figures you have.

Well firstly I'm not speaking from a UK perspective. I've already stated that UK public charging rates are bonkers and an outlier in Europe. Secondly, the AA rates given are clearly an average across all rates which is also bonkers. Nobody is going to home charge on daytime rates for example. Or if so, a vanishingly small percentage.

But yes, at 49p/kWh, a car that will do 22kWh/100 miles will cost about 10.8p a mile. That's a Tesla Model 3 btw. Slightly cheaper than the micro-diesel you quoted. Cheaper than all the rest. And miniscule servicing costs.

They are going to have to do something about the price of charging as they are going to eventually force the residents of 9 million homes into EV ownership as ICE cars become rare or too expensive to run.

Again with the 9 million homes. They should not be the focus, it's the 20 million that can accommodate an EV but currently aren't that should be the primary focus.

Obviously agree on public charging rates.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

it's the 20 million that can accommodate an EV but currently aren't that should be the primary focus.

They screwed up by removing the grant then making owners pay the road fund licence, people with a old but reliable ICE car are not going to move to an EV just for the sake of it and especially if they make long journeys often.

 

[jof]

Just to change the subject slighty, how are you electric car owners getting on with the winter floods?
How well sealed are your car batteries, as they are mounted as low as possible for the centre of gravity.
Also 50v is a lot of potential to drive electrolysis of any water that gets in & drive corrosion on any connectors.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Just to change the subject slighty, how are you electric car owners getting on with the winter floods?
How well sealed are your car batteries, as they are mounted as low as possible for the centre of gravity.
Also 50v is a lot of potential to drive electrolysis of any water that gets in & drive corrosion on any connectors.

I would imagine they are scrap when flooded as are modern ICE cars, who thought putting all the electrics (ECU etc) under the carpets was a good idea.

 

[Brew_DD2]

Just to change the subject slighty, how are you electric car owners getting on with the winter floods?
How well sealed are your car batteries, as they are mounted as low as possible for the centre of gravity.
Also 50v is a lot of potential to drive electrolysis of any water that gets in & drive corrosion on any connectors.

Absolutely fine. We had terrible floods up here last year at this time. No issues at all.

 

[Larse]

Just to change the subject slighty, how are you electric car owners getting on with the winter floods?
How well sealed are your car batteries, as they are mounted as low as possible for the centre of gravity.
Also 50v is a lot of potential to drive electrolysis of any water that gets in & drive corrosion on any connectors.

There's no issue. It would be the most laughable faux pas in the history of motoring if that was a problem. One of the methods of extinguishing a runaway battery fire is to drive a hole into the bottom and inject water at high pressure. The power required to drive that hole is not insubstantial. There is no other method of getting water into the battery pack.

 

[Larse]

They screwed up by removing the grant then making owners pay the road fund licence, people with a old but reliable ICE car are not going to move to an EV just for the sake of it and especially if they make long journeys often.

That's why they should be the primary focus. And yes, grants should be restored. Both for cars and chargers. We have that in Ireland. €3,500 for the car and €300 for the charger. EVs are now cheaper here than in the UK.

Plenty of people driving long distances in EVs. It's not the problem the media make it out to be. Ranges are increasing all the time. The Opel/Vauxhall Grandland has a range of over 400 miles. And it's not an outlier.

 

[Alastair70]

Just to change the subject slighty, how are you electric car owners getting on with the winter floods?
How well sealed are your car batteries, as they are mounted as low as possible for the centre of gravity.
Also 50v is a lot of potential to drive electrolysis of any water that gets in & drive corrosion on any connectors.

I had a submersion episode in my Tesla last winter (long story involving farmers taking away closed road signage). My wife’s Q5 would have been a write off. The Tesla motored on through the flood, water not quite up to the wing mirrors, but very close.
The high voltage side was completely fine, and the car drove normally afterwards. Repair costs for the 12v side was around £1000.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

That's my point. Focusing on the 9 million when there's more than twice that number capable and makes the 1.4 million EVs on the road look ridiculously small.

This one caught my eye. 34p/kWh is the average home charge cost? That can't be right. My cost is 14c/kWh (12p/kWh) and I wouldn't be on the lowest night rate around.

View attachment 106253

UK energy price cap is 24.5p kWh

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Plenty of people driving long distances in EVs. It's not the problem the media make it out to be. R

But it is a problem if you own an ICE that is in good condition even if old and you are happy with it and have no reason to spend loads of money on something you don't need.

The government are going to have to get used to the idea that a lot of people are going to cling to their ICE cars until they are at the point where its not worth spending any more money on them many because they cannot afford a new EV and buying used brings with it battery failure anguish and many because they prefer ICE cars.

 

[Nicks90]

Plenty of people driving long distances in EVs. It's not the problem the media make it out to be. Ranges are increasing all the time. The Opel/Vauxhall Grandland has a range of over 400 miles. And it's not an outlier.

But you don't need 400 mile range.
Case in point is tomorrow, I am driving from South Leeds to Maidenhead and back in one day to see a customer exhibition
442 miles round trip.
My Tesla model Y theoretically can do 260 miles.... In summer and driving sub 30mph in a city, yeah, but not flogging it down the motorway. More like 210 miles realistically. So 3 miles per kw

I will stop 2/3rds the way down - about 2.5 hours in - (plug the car in to a Tesla charger) and grab a coffee and go for a pee . Then finish the journey
Do boring work stuff and head home.
I'll stop after about 45 minutes (plug the car in to a Tesla charger) grab a coffee and a snack. I should be home about 8pm so need a stop gap snack to see me through, so a naughty gregs I reckon.
Should now have enough charge to do the last 2.5 hours to get home.

Has it inconvenienced me having to charge? Nope. Done that journey a few times in my old diesel Merc and my current Volvo XC90 and would invariably stop at exactly the same places and do exactly the same thing.

The difference is - even with supercharger prices - half my leccy is at 7p/kW (initial charge at home) and the other half 40p/kw, giving an average of 24p/kW, or equivalent of 8p/pm
My Volvo does 32mpg on a good run and costs 20p/pm, is slower and doesn't drive as nice and feels like an antique

 

[Chippy_Tea]

One thing rarely mentioned when discussing EV ownership is what happens when there is a crash between your last planned top up and next and your range is low its the middle of the night in winter and you are stuck not knowing how long you are going to be there, you are going to have to run the heater and lights at the bare minimum and ICE could do this for hours on 1/4 of a tank how long would the battery last?

 

[Larse]

But it is a problem if you own an ICE that is in good condition even if old and you have no reason to spend loads of money on something you don't need.

How is this a problem? Just keep the ICE. Nobody's telling you to change it.

The government are going to have to get used to the idea a lot of people will cling to their ICE until its past the point where its worth spending more money on it some because they cannot afford a new EV and buying used brings with it battery failure anguish and the rest because they prefer ICE cars.

"Battery failure anguish"

Also stop thinking of the government. Think of the billions of tons of CO2 ICE cars are throwing into the atmosphere every day. The most economical ICE will throw out a ton every 10k miles. The older ones you seem so fond of throw out multiples of that.

People buy new cars every day. Why are you getting your knickers in a twist about them being asked to maybe consider a BEV instead of an ICE?

 

[Larse]

One thing rarely mentioned when discussing EV ownership is what happens when there is a crash between your last planned top up and next and your range is low its the middle of the night in winter and you are stuck not knowing how long you are going to be there, you are going to have to run the heater and lights at the bare minimum and ICE could do this for hours on 1/4 of a tank how long would the battery last?

And what would you do if your tank is nearly empty and your next filling station is 10 miles past the road block? Or your car overheats when it's stopped and you can see the needle creeping to the red. What to do?

Seriously Chippy, we can all make up hypothetical horror stories that somehow make your fuel choice a bad one.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

How is this a problem? Just keep the ICE. Nobody's telling you to change it.

You said -

, it's the 20 million that can accommodate an EV but currently aren't that should be the primary focus.

How do they persuade them to move to EV all they can do is bribe them they are not going to do that as they scrapped the earlier bribe.