Electric cars.

[Chippy_Tea]

I am at work so cannot search.

They said a while ago new ICE and BEV would soon be similar in price, is this now the case

 

[Brew_DD2]

How long before we follow America and make these cheap Chinese cars not look such a great bargain.

Would be a big mistake.

 

[Brew_DD2]

But you don't need an expensive charger fitting at your property and you don't have to worry you may not be able to charge your car if making a long journey.

Running costs much lower with said charger (and the chargers aren't particularly expensive). The long journey thing is totally overblown.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The UK figures show that sales for new EVs from manufactures in the UK are not reaching that required levels of the legislation

As I said above, most manufacturers are meeting the target which is effectively 18.1%, the ones making the noise are the one that have screwed up their strategy and are now begging for special favours.

But you don't need an expensive charger fitting at your property and you don't have to worry you may not be able to charge your car if making a long journey.

That charger pays back in less than a year. And most people (85% IIRC) charge at home, which means you don't have to waste time going to a petrol station. As I said way back at the start of this thread, I know someone who had a EV and never charged away from home, other than as a test run to see how it worked. And 90% of people never travel more than 200 miles in a day, so the range thing is rather overblown.

They said a while ago new ICE and BEV would soon be similar in price, is this now the case

Getting there - the new Frontera is the same price for both ICE and electric, the new electric Mini is about £2k more (ie 7%) so you'd soon get that back with home charging. The targets are working.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Are modern petrol cars classed as clean, genuine question.

No definitive answers as depends on the specific vehicle and intended use.

A new diesel is rougher comparable to a petrol, but this only applies to Euro 6 or above where as euro 3 or 4 for petrol are seen as clean.

Neither really are they both are inefficient all ICE by its nature

 

[Larse]

But you don't need an expensive charger fitting at your property and you don't have to worry you may not be able to charge your car if making a long journey.

Since that charger is saving you up to £4.50/100km (too lazy to work out mile equivalent ). It will have paid for itself well within 2500km. But in the broader scheme of things, a grand or thereabouts is hardly a bank breaker, especially since many EVs are now coming out cheaper than their ICE equivalents. And discounts the absolute comfort of knowing that your car will be full up in the morning.

The thought that I might not be able to charge my car on a long journey has never crossed my mind. And I've driven down as low as 8% at times knowing I've plenty of options. Just isn't a factor. Mostly because the car tells me where my nearest charge points are and I can check their status on the road.

It's always the horror stories that make headlines, never the routine nature of charging on the road for the vast majority of drivers. And most of these horror stories end up being caused by rank stupidity.

 

[Larse]

Are modern petrol cars classed as clean, genuine question.

Relatively. Lowest emissions would be around 84g/km which doesn't sound like a lot. But in 50,000 kms, that car will have emitted over 4 tonnes of carbon dioxide.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Since that charger is saving you up to £4.50/100km (too lazy to work out mile equivalent ). It will have paid for itself well within 2500km. But in the broader scheme of things, a grand or thereabouts is hardly a bank breaker, especially since many EVs are now coming out cheaper than their ICE equivalents. And discounts the absolute comfort of knowing that your car will be full up in the morning.

The thought that I might not be able to charge my car on a long journey has never crossed my mind. And I've driven down as low as 8% at times knowing I've plenty of options. Just isn't a factor. Mostly because the car tells me where my nearest charge points are and I can check their status on the road.

It's always the horror stories that make headlines, never the routine nature of charging on the road for the vast majority of drivers. And most of these horror stories end up being caused by rank stupidity.

I agree only 6 months in with an EV but never been stuck or had to worry about range, if i know i am going a distance I charge it up the night before.

Initial outlay charger insurance etc is higher but the running costs will slowly claw that back.

Range anxiety for most is a myth, just need to get into the mindset that you charge more than you would fill up at a garage.

The charging situation is still the big hurdle if you do not have the option of a home charger its a very different calculation, and needs careful consideration.

Its a slam dunk if you have a home charger, very grey if you rely on public charging, this is the fundamental issue that no real solution has been presented as of yet.

Also worth pointing out nearly all insurance companies now offer free recovery if you run out of charge and not with in reach of a working available charger, this is the safety net they have built in and is standard on most EV policies, btw my humble Kona EV is only about 10% higher than the diesel Focus it replaced.

 

[Larse]

The charging situation is still the big hurdle if you do not have the option of a home charger its a very different calculation, and needs careful consideration.

Its a slam dunk if you have a home charger, very grey if you rely on public charging, this is the fundamental issue that no real solution has been presented as of yet.

I don't know what the situation is like in the UK regarding the number of homes that don't have off street parking and hence no ability to install a charging point. But I suspect it's overblown (same as here in Ireland) when taken in the round with the number of EVs on the road.

Here, over two thirds of homes have off street parking, yet EVs only make up less than 10% of that number.

So talking about that as an issue when 90% of homes without EVs could happily have one without a problem, seems like trying to shoot the crocodiles furthest from the boat while the nearest ones are nibbling at your legs..

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I don't know what the situation is like in the UK regarding the number of homes that don't have off street parking and hence no ability to install a charging point. But I suspect it's overblown (same as here in Ireland) when taken in the round with the number of EVs on the road.

I believe 30% have no off street parking so roughly 9 million cannot home charge.

This guy says modern diesel is the better option for those that cannot home charge.

 

[old dog new tricks]

I don't know what the situation is like in the UK regarding the number of homes that don't have off street parking and hence no ability to install a charging point. But I suspect it's overblown (same as here in Ireland) when taken in the round with the number of EVs on the road.

Here, over two thirds of homes have off street parking, yet EVs only make up less than 10% of that number.

So talking about that as an issue when 90% of homes without EVs could happily have one without a problem, seems like trying to shoot the crocodiles furthest from the boat while the nearest ones are nibbling at your legs..

The UK total last figures I could see with off street parking or street side parking suitable for an EV charger was 65.1%

In my local area are the figure is lower at 58%

of course these figures my be out of date but the published data i could find, makes sense very few local authority or ex local authority in this area have private parking they were mostly built with communal parking that does not lend itself to a private charger.

The huge number of flats ne and old have the same issue.

Its very much a class divider if you have a property with a drive you can have a charger if not almost impossible

https://www.racfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/standing_still_off_street_parking_by_LA_A-Z.pdf

 

[Larse]

I believe 30% have no off street parking so roughly 9 million cannot home charge.

This guy says modern diesel is the better option for those that cannot home charge.

That's my point. Focusing on the 9 million when there's more than twice that number capable and makes the 1.4 million EVs on the road look ridiculously small.

This one caught my eye. 34p/kWh is the average home charge cost? That can't be right. My cost is 14c/kWh (12p/kWh) and I wouldn't be on the lowest night rate around.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Some interesting figures quoted in the video.

His car range goes from 300 miles in summer to 160 in winter when using heater etc.

When he tested his range dropped from 190 to 140 just by switching the heater on.

A friend of his can only get 90 miles from a modern Mini in winter.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

This one caught my eye. 34p/kWh is the average home charge cost? That can't be right. My cost is 14c/kWh (12p/kWh) and I wouldn't be on the lowest night rate around.

It says average and i doubt the AA are wrong.

Edit - Just noticed the figures are from 2022 here is one from this year.

 

[Larse]

Some interesting figures quoted in the video.

His car goes from 300 miles in summer to 160 in winter when using heater etc.

When he tested his range dropped from 190 to 140 just by switching the heater on.

A friend of his can only get 90 miles from a modern Mini in winter.

He said it was more like 250 in summer. Manufacturer said 300. Dropping to 160 seems a tad much, but there will always be a drop, this is well known with EVs since they don't have a combustion engine to heat water and therefore the cabin.

My car goes from about 20kWh/100km in the summer to around 24kWh/100km in the winter (temperatures in the low single digits). Maybe I should put the heat on high to get his figures.

 

[Larse]

It says average and i doubt the AA are wrong.

I doubt they're wrong either. But then again, we don't know what they're taking to get the average. Electricity prices vary wildly and people who own EVs will generally run off a cheaper night rate to charge. I suspect the AA is averaging all electricity prices rather than those that would be used by EV owners.

Edit: Also note that those prices are from two years ago.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It says average and i doubt the AA are wrong.

But it is possible to mislead using old figures, things have changed for the September 2024 one. And of course there's various caveats - there are 7p/kWh plans available, and even the public charging is based on the expensive PAYG rates rather than subscription rates.

https://www.theaa.com/about-us/newsroom/aa-ev-recharge-report-september-2024