Electric cars.

[Fire]

Is there a market for some sort of app that allows general public to use personal chargers?

For example, I have a charger at home and if not in use someone could come and connect and via a app they can be charged slightly more than I pay.

* this may exist already.

Yes there is its Co Charger. I have downloaded it but not signed up as my charger is inside my garage and potential users cant easily access it

 

[old dog new tricks]

Been looking into EVs and have to admit to changing my views not sure can afford to make the jump this time around as dealers are not offering good deals on EVs compared to ICE.
Couple of points having taken notice of EVs

Do they activate the brake lights when using regen? Seems not surely this is a safety risk for other drivers? To put in context sons motorbike you close the throttle it brings on the brake lights due the engine breaking effect on bikes. Even F1 they indicate when harvesting. I may be wrong but having seen no brake likes from an iPace yet slowing same rate as other traffic only illuminated when came to a stop.

Public charging this is an absolute minefield I live in Scotland so have one app is not the best but at least standardisation. I accept the fast public chargers cost and TBF infrastructure needs to recover costs still think it's a bit over kill and sends wrong message about transitioning to EV. What in my area I do not agree with is the local authorities public chargers, these were installed and paid for many years ago and at the time this was via direct Scottish government funding not the local authorities. They were free for many years and proved very popular not super fast speeds some 7kw, 22kw and the odd 50kw. They are all now at least 40p for up to 22kw and up to 90p for above 22kw. My local authority was very honest it's an income stream. They use the profit to boost funds.
The dual pricing for superchargers is not right especially if you pay a member fee to get lower rates. This needs some form of regulation why are variable rates not applied for off peak for example?

Pot holes and weight of EVs this is a red herring many ICE are massively overweight as well and the huge 4x4 are just as damaging to roads. Besides from 2025 EV owners will pay the same road tax so contributing in the same way as ICE.

Home chargers - this by far is biggest rip off as they are not even chargers they supply AC so the vehicles onboard charger converts to DC. I accept the installation needs be via a electrian, same as any mains electricity work. What I do not accept is the price of the wall boxes it's scandalous. Even with dealer offers cheapest installation I can get is £600, without it's nearer £1500!

I have no fears in terms of high mileage and life of batteries I think that has been vastly blown out of proportion and only applies to early models. The simplicity of them is appealing

 

[Theoriginalrich]

Tesla are starting to open up more and more of their superchargers for use by drivers of other makes of EV. The cost is higher than for Tesla drivers (eg, Flint Supercharger is 30p kwh for Tesla and 61p kwh for non Tesla) but that is still a lot cheaper than many other EV rapid chargers. I wonder if, as this expands further, that other providers will reduce their prices?

On a road trip to Skye last month I used the superstations in Fort William for top ups. I was getting 62kw charge both times at 46p kWh. They were by far the quickest and cheapest chargers we used.
For reference I have a Skoda Enyaq 80 and I love it!

 

[JockyBrewer]

Do they activate the brake lights when using regen? Seems not surely this is a safety risk for other drivers? To put in context sons motorbike you close the throttle it brings on the brake lights due the engine breaking effect on bikes. Even F1 they indicate when harvesting. I may be wrong but having seen no brake likes from an iPace yet slowing same rate as other traffic only illuminated when came to a stop.

I agree that there needs to be a rethink about this. Brake lights should be turned on automatically when you're decelerating quickly.

One thing this has got me wondering - I know that at least some EVs you can adjust the regen when lifting off the throttle. Fully on and you can basically drive on the accelerator, fully off and it's more like an ICE where you can coast and you have to use the brake to slow down.

But in the latter case does this actually affect the regen performance? Is the car smart enough to harvest energy if it can slow you down fast enough that way?

 

[old dog new tricks]

Some harvest when the cruise control is used they use regen to control the speed

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

I agree that there needs to be a rethink about this. Brake lights should be turned on automatically when you're decelerating quickly.

One thing this has got me wondering - I know that at least some EVs you can adjust the regen when lifting off the throttle. Fully on and you can basically drive on the accelerator, fully off and it's more like an ICE where you can coast and you have to use the brake to slow down.

But in the latter case does this actually affect the regen performance? Is the car smart enough to harvest energy if it can slow you down fast enough that way?

I can only comment on my car, a Tesla Model 3.

So, yes, regen braking effectively has the motors running in the opposite direction and the Kenetic energy then recharges the batteries. On a long downhill stretch of road in Wales recently I put 2% charge back into my battery.

With regard to brake lights, this gets quite complicated as if you are using regen, you are not necessarily slowing down (like in the example above). The way the Tesla woks is that if you are decelerating, whether it be by regen or other, the brake lights come on. Not sure about other make but I would assume the same.

 

[JockyBrewer]

I can only comment on my car, a Tesla Model 3.

So, yes, regen braking effectively has the motors running in the opposite direction and the Kenetic energy then recharges the batteries. On a long downhill stretch of road in Wales recently I put 2% charge back into my battery.

With regard to brake lights, this gets quite complicated as if you are using regen, you are not necessarily slowing down (like in the example above). The way the Tesla woks is that if you are decelerating, whether it be by regen or other, the brake lights come on. Not sure about other make but I would assume the same.

Sounds like it's a problem that has already been solved then!

 

[Theoriginalrich]

On my car when in regen ( b mode ) as soon as I take my foot of the acc pedal and the car starts to slow the brake lights come on. When in auto ( a mode ) I’m not sure as I hardly use it apart from the occasional motorway drive. But interestingly it slows the car for some roundabouts and junctions near my house. Not enough to trust though.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I know it's all targeted and I've previously shown an interest in ev's but it prime click bait

Isn't google news all click bait?

 

[Nicks90]

One thing this has got me wondering - I know that at least some EVs you can adjust the regen when lifting off the throttle. Fully on and you can basically drive on the accelerator, fully off and it's more like an ICE where you can coast and you have to use the brake to slow down.

But in the latter case does this actually affect the regen performance? Is the car smart enough to harvest energy if it can slow you down fast enough that way?

(Car model dependent) no. What happens is you are turning off automatic regen and instead utilising the 'brake pedal'. When you press the brake then the regen actually takes over and you aren't using your disks / pads until you brake hard enough to outstrip the regens ability to slow you down.
It's not as efficient as you are more likely to brake harder and therefore exceed regen capacity and need the disks / pads more frequently

 

[Nicks90]

Are tesla chargers cheaper because of the amount of cars they have sold and brand loyalty.

No.
People forget Tesla is not a car manufacturer, they are a technology company that happens to make cars!

Tesla chargers were installed everywhere at huge cost and given to Tesla car drivers for free / heavily subsidised to gain more market share. And it worked brilliantly, not just for Tesla, but with the promise of opening them up to other EV drivers, range anxiety reduces and EV sales across the board increases.
This means:
The Tesla charger design/software patents has been sold multiple times to other companies, making huge royalties.
The battery management system patents and software in the Tesla cars has been sold multiple times to other companies, making huge royalties
The lfp battery tech patents are part owned by Tesla... Blablah licencing profits
The operating system and ethernet architecture in Tesla's are being... Yep licenced for profit
Auto drive, licence profits
System control, licence profits
Regen software control. Yep same
Mapping and APIs in to Google, thank you very much

You name it, Tesla will try and licence it. The sale of the cars is purely there to generate working capital for investment in new tech
Opening up the chargers at a higher price / subscription to other EV users will a) pay off the install costs b) provide an additional revenue stream in the next few years c) there is already talk of VW part funding new Tesla chargers in hotspot areas to assist their own car sales in some cities....I know, crazy but true

 

[AlBrew]

Isn't google news all click bait?

Yes, yes it is

 

[Northern_Brewer]

People forget Tesla is not a car manufacturer, they are a technology company that happens to make cars!...

You name it, Tesla will try and licence it. The sale of the cars is purely there to generate working capital for investment in new tech

Not really.

Musk likes to pretend that Tesla are a technology company that happens to make cars, but if you look at the accounts they really aren't, their spending on R&D was way less than their competitors. Which might explain why it's taking them so long to introduce new models, get self-driving to work properly etc etc. And their "service" revenue is less than 10% of the total.

In other news, Musk has decided to fire virtually the entire Supercharger division, so that's going to end well. Presumably they're going to hold on to the existing sites for now, and try to licence the name to BP or somebody. One theory is that this is a purge to get rid of their boss, Rebecca Tinucci, who was looking a bit of a threat if any shareholders decided it was time for a new CEO...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68935522

 

[dad_of_jon]

Slight exaggeration, but a reminder that certain newspapers are quite relaxed about making up propaganda against electric cars :
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminsti...ory-about-electric-vehicles-causing-potholes/

The heavier the vehicle the more damage to the roads I suppose. why is that even a story. *SIGH* In general ev's are heavier than similar sized ice cars but not a heavy as a truck. So an obvious fact is almost as bad as a lie. like water is wet and ice is cold.

 

[dad_of_jon]

I agree that there needs to be a rethink about this. Brake lights should be turned on automatically when you're decelerating quickly.

One thing this has got me wondering - I know that at least some EVs you can adjust the regen when lifting off the throttle. Fully on and you can basically drive on the accelerator, fully off and it's more like an ICE where you can coast and you have to use the brake to slow down.

But in the latter case does this actually affect the regen performance? Is the car smart enough to harvest energy if it can slow you down fast enough that way?

yup and on our cars if you do an emergency stop the hazards flash too

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

On my car when in regen ( b mode ) as soon as I take my foot of the acc pedal and the car starts to slow the brake lights come on. When in auto ( a mode ) I’m not sure as I hardly use it apart from the occasional motorway drive. But interestingly it slows the car for some roundabouts and junctions near my house. Not enough to trust though.

My son has a tesla 3 and has it set to maximum regeneration, so that the throttle is basically a stop /go control, The problem I find with this is, that I get car sick in his car, I don't usually get car sick in other cars , or certainly anything near to the same extent..It's fine on a long run but driving in the suburbs or city , I find it very uncomfortable , I reckon its the regen mode is the issue., that or he needs a lighter foot

 

[old dog new tricks]

(Car model dependent) no. What happens is you are turning off automatic regen and instead utilising the 'brake pedal'. When you press the brake then the regen actually takes over and you aren't using your disks / pads until you brake hard enough to outstrip the regens ability to slow you down.
It's not as efficient as you are more likely to brake harder and therefore exceed regen capacity and need the disks / pads more frequently

yes been looking into this the brake wear on EVs is negligible, likewise the horror stories or eating tyres seems unfounded.

 

[Kit-brewer]

I love the power regen system. I often drive one peddle now, with my foot hovering over the brake peddle just in case.

 

[old dog new tricks]

Not really.

Musk likes to pretend that Tesla are a technology company that happens to make cars, but if you look at the accounts they really aren't, their spending on R&D was way less than their competitors. Which might explain why it's taking them so long to introduce new models, get self-driving to work properly etc etc. And their "service" revenue is less than 10% of the total.

In other news, Musk has decided to fire virtually the entire Supercharger division, so that's going to end well. Presumably they're going to hold on to the existing sites for now, and try to licence the name to BP or somebody. One theory is that this is a purge to get rid of their boss, Rebecca Tinucci, who was looking a bit of a threat if any shareholders decided it was time for a new CEO...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68935522

Yes i have been following the story about the Supercharger lay offs, definitely looks like it will be sold off or licensed to someone else,

You are spot on the Tesla network was a marketing strategy and a good one very few people do not know what Tesla or a Supercharger is, most manufactures would have loved that level of exposure.

Tesla has become a major player no doubt about that, but lets not be silly of course they make profit on every vehicle, to be fair they have modernised the production method as said earlier in this thread that is double edged sword as makes replacing large complex panels expensive for a bump etc.

personally i think BMW had it right with the i3 and to an extend the A2 build it as light as possible and push tech that way to make reductions in weight of the structure as well as the batteries obviously.

 

[hoppyscotty]

As a Tesla driver I can attest that Tesla is not tech company...if you ignore the facade of technology like the big iPad screed, which is a horrible way to interact with the car, the fundamental tech that lies underneath is not particularly innovative, and worse than that, doesn't actually work that well. The auto wipers are just not fit for purpose. The turning circle is worse than pants, the active cruise control and self steering throws a wobbly regularly and effectively emergency stops for no particular reason when it gets confused, and the overall build quility is questionable. The real innovation with Tesla is the supercharging network and the overall design of the car in the way they've packaged up the motors and battery meaning you have loads of space inside the car and loads of cubby holes for storage. But overall its a good car and I quite like it and still seems the be the best BEV out there at the moment...for now at least.

The problem with weight reduction is it often includes different materials that are more expensive to produce, require more expensive manufacturing methods and therefore more expensive and more complex to manufacture, more expensive to repair pushing up insurance costs, and often are not as durable and long lasting as more conventional materials and harder to recycle/reprocess at end of life.